Noticed this In the latest Top Gear

[Captiva Fan]

The 1-series is actually something like $37k for the 118i & $41k for the 120i. However, BMW has this crazy device called an Options List; the only 2004 shipment/s of 100-series cars were all 120i's and came already equipped with a bunch of expensive options (I dunno if any of them were lacking leather, for example).

[TonyJZX]

The 1-series is actually something like $37k for the 118i & $41k for the 120i. However, BMW has this crazy device called an Options List...

That base price is just it - BASE.

I get the feeling they are doing what Toyota used to do and that's make everything optional... aircon, auto, metallics.

As the first couple of the rank, of course they will be optioned to the hilt to get the fashion victims to pony up.

Even a $40,000 - $50,000 hatch is outrageous. It's a hatch after all.

btw. the E46 is a non Bangle design = good

The 6-series isn't too bad but even it has some odd cues like that bustle boot.

T.

[hakosuka]

I assume you get my point, though?

Duh....only just

Whatever one thinks of the car in my avatar, it has never aroused the level of controversy that the mangled BMW's have, and for good reason. A lot of people I have talked to agree with me. Are they all "conservative" too?


Even a $40,000 - $50,000 hatch is outrageous. It's a hatch after all.

I could go and get a Liberty GT manual for just over $50K and it is a shitload better car in looks performance value etc.

Some people deserve to have their money removed from them for being stoopid

Now THIS guy talks sense.

[AndyMac]

Geeezzz....

I thought the Z4 was one of the most attractive cars on the road.

[Captiva Fan]

Even a $40,000 - $50,000 hatch is outrageous. It's a hatch after all.

I don't understand what being a hatch has to do with it.
Imagine how many M-Coupés they would've sold at $40k ... Subaru seem to have done good business out of selling $40k hatches. Aren't the V12 front-engined Ferraris hatchbacks? Porsche 928's were, weren't they?

Whatever one thinks of the car in my avatar, it has never aroused the level of controversy that the mangled BMW's have, and for good reason. A lot of people I have talked to agree with me. Are they all "conservative" too?

There was enough conservatism in the Australian fleet market for the technically-superior AU Falcon to take a huge step backwards in sales; so yeah, I think a lot of Australians are very conservative (*insert standard "look who got voted in at the last federal election" comment*).
Meanwhile, BMW car sales (and not just trucks) keep increasing globally ... obviously not everyone agrees.

I could go and get a Liberty GT manual for just over $50K and it is a shitload better car in looks performance value etc.

No fair pulling the Subaru trump card, that's the one I usually use & so it's hard to fight against ...
However, I do know a couple of people who'd pay the same money for the BMW as for the Liberty, 'cos the BMW is smaller & 'cos bargain-basement BMW's have generally been cheaper than you might expect over the entire "ownership experience"; high resale tends to mean low lease repayments (relatively speaking). Give me a Liberty 3.0R-B any day, but a similar-list-price 318i would be considerably cheaper to lease.

[IMOA]

Geeezzz....

I thought the Z4 was one of the most attractive cars on the road.

I've never had more "wow, I love your car" comments than when I had a Z4 for a couple of days, I'd say you're not alone.

[BigMuz]

I reckon the BMW sells well cos of the LAthamesque "aspirational" class.

ie We want to look like we are rich and happy, financed to within an inch of our lives and mortgaged to the hilt, and travelling three hours a day in Sydney, and private school fees, and Mum has to work and ... you get the drift.

So debating which car is better designed or styled is irrelevant imho.

The real question is- What is the flashiest, expensivest looking car we can buy on our minimal remaining finances after all the other wanky stuff we have to spend? But it can't be pretentious.....

And it can't be second hand, dahling, that is so Western Suburbs..

Muz

[hakosuka]

I don't understand what being a hatch has to do with it.

Imagine how many M-Coupés they would've sold at $40k ... Subaru seem to have done good business out of selling $40k hatches. Aren't the V12 front-engined Ferraris hatchbacks? Porsche 928's were, weren't they?

The M-Coupe was another shocker IMHO - but they would have sold more at that price, no doubt due to the hordes of fashion victims.

The difference is that a $40k Subaru hatch was a WRX, it was reasonably attractive, and offered much more performance/grip for those who cared, as well as more equipment.

Don't know about the Ferrari but the 928 was simply beautiful - worlds away from a 1 series in looks alone.

There was enough conservatism in the Australian fleet market for the technically-superior AU Falcon to take a huge step backwards in sales; so yeah, I think a lot of Australians are very conservative (*insert standard "look who got voted in at the last federal election" comment*).
Meanwhile, BMW car sales (and not just trucks) keep increasing globally ... obviously not everyone agrees.

Maybe so, but I don't care how advanced it was - it was ugly. Apart from a OHC and a better IRS that the Commondore, it was no huge leap anyway and fleets don't require cutting edge technical specifications.
THe Citroen DS was a huge technical leap but it WAS beautiful or at the least unique and quirky.

Well I didn't vote for Howard but I wold never buy a AU Falcon either. Explain that :D

Sadly there are increasing swarms of industrial design-illiterate fashion victims about buying these "new breed" of BMWs - they have all being sucked in. But remember that the current nice looking 318i is the biggest seller. All I can say is the people I know can see through the shit - literally.

No fair pulling the Subaru trump card, that's the one I usually use & so it's hard to fight against ...

I would never be in a position to lease, and don't know much about it. I would imagine that servicing of the BMW would cost a fair bit more. Anyway my mind is made up in regard to which one I would choose.

We want to look like we are rich and happy - So debating which car is better designed or styled is irrelevant imho

So: Appearances(not the actual looks of the car itself) + brand equity = Stupid wannabe fashion victims.

Couldn't have put it better myself - this is exactly why ugly BMW's are selling in increasing numbers.....

[TonyJZX]

You gotta ask yourself this...

Would anyone on PF buy one?

cue sound of *crickets*

T.

[Captiva Fan]

Doesn't make it a pile of poo ... just means it's overpriced for what it is. Mind you, people here will buy an Alfa 147 for similar money, so I don't see why they wouldn't buy a similarly-performing similarly-priced BMW ... reverse snobbery?

I think Liberties are great. If they were $200k they'd be somewhat overpriced; but they wouldn't be crap.

hakosuka ... so are you saying that Skyline is or isn't ugly? Most people would say it was ... so it's automatically crap?

[DRIFTIN]

Top Gear basically said the 1-series steers well and has a few nifty features but fails in most other areas (ride quality, value for money etc.)

http://gear.viper007bond.com/

[hakosuka]

Doesn't make it a pile of poo ... just means it's overpriced for what it is. Mind you, people here will buy an Alfa 147 for similar money, so I don't see why they wouldn't buy a similarly-performing similarly-priced BMW ... reverse snobbery?

Well a 147 isn't a particularly good car in terms of looks/value for money or any other quality. So I don't care. The 1 Series is not a shit car in terms of what it can actually do - although the current models are slow, it is shit in terms of its looks and very bad value for money.

I think Liberties are great. If they were $200k they'd be somewhat overpriced; but they wouldn't be crap.

Yes they would just be stupidly overpriced so poor me would take my chances on a second 1999/2000 WRX or a Liberty RS if I want to keep my car for more than 2 weeks. At least the GT looks great

hakosuka ... so are you saying that Skyline is or isn't ugly? Most people would say it was ... so it's automatically crap?

I think it looks horn and has attitude. It is not beautiful in the way a Muira or DB5 or 1960's 911 etc is - but it has presence. If people think it look ugly I don't care - they are probably the types who love MGB's or 240DL's anyway - so their opinions don't rate with me. But is does not have flame surfacing, raised bonnet/boot shutlines and other assorted pretentious bangle styling "innovations". Most people, if they know what it actually is, will be indifferent to it. Unlike the bangle BMWs which polarise opinions, as we have seen. :D

The most important thing to me is that it looks far better than any Volvo ever designed. The P1800S is "prettier" but that is as far as it goes.

[Captiva Fan]

The most important thing to me is that it looks far better than any Volvo ever designed. The P1800S is "prettier" but that is as far as it goes.

You seem to be trying to bait me with this whole anti-Volvo sentiment thing ... unfortunately it isn't going to work, because with a few exceptions I agree with you!

I really do think this quote I've given here should, for accuracy's sake, be rephrased starting with "The most important is that it looks far better to me ...". That's what I'm getting at. Most people will look at your Skyline & see the odd angles on the nose, the recessed round headlights, the lack of aerodynamics/"swoopyness", the oversized wheel recesses, etc. Yet you like it. Hell, I like it. Most people interested in the classics in just about any car club like it. But I suggest that we like it because we've been conditioned to accept it as a "classic"; it really doesn't have beautiful proportions, smooth lines, it doesn't flow all that well, etc ... when talking styling, we're talking SO much about subjective stuff that you can't have a serious discussion about it & say something is "bad" - not when so many people like something.

[PT]

I've never had more "wow, I love your car" comments than when I had a Z4 for a couple of days, I'd say you're not alone.

Sorry I have to disagree, the worst thing BMW did was take on the american design engineer for the latest look. The Z4 looks like a hyundia from the front and all the rest have that taxi look from behind where someone forgot to remove the rear advertising space on the boot.

The current M3 and 3 series looks great it will be interesting to see how far they botch that series.

Patrick

[TonyJZX]

The current M3 and 3 series looks great it will be interesting to see how far they botch that series.

We already have the catalogs for the new 3 series.

It's a sideways step. It has a lot of "Hyundai" in the arse.

Besides that, I think most of us would take a e36 or e46.

T.