Toyota 3RZ, how good are they!

[Grumpy Rooster]

The way I look at it is, if my mates turbo 22R can make 200rwhp with a totally unopened 230,000km engine with a VF24 running 15psi and be flogged every day and stay together, then anything is possible.

And we all know the 22R is a dog of an engine stock.

[psi999]

I think OXY still has a few cases of VB in your wine "cellar" EDO

[Nero]

hmmm. Ustasa
Balance shafts would be not ideal for high rpm engine and are heavy but not an issue for low rpm street stuff. Would be crap for HP hearoes stuff, but 95mm stroke would stuff that up anyway.
Siamesed ports...I did not read it that way, what do you means siamesed ports?
Scissor gear, again ok for low rpm and same issues as above, not very sporting but its a truck engine.
Current thinking is that low valve angines are good. More eff CC and better port angles which is good for power and emissions (assuming it was designed for it).
Stroke....well that is bad and would mean limit of up to 7000rpm

[tim510]

Graphs, 1/4 time slips yet mate?

Or are you going to keep digging a bigger hole for yourself?

on their way dude, doing my best to have them this weekend

(hard to catch friend)

[piss98]

If you have a drink I'll shout you a lappy.

Can I suggest unless there is something I don't know about you Tim I wouldn't have a drink - I wouldn't think a gyrating Pupat in a g string on your lap is much of a prize. :D

[psi999]

hmmm. Ustasa
Balance shafts would be no idea for high rpm engine and are heavy but not an issue for low rpm street stuff. Would be crap for HP hearoes stuff, but 95mm stroke would stuff that up anyway.
Siamesed ports...I did not read it that way, what do you means siamesed ports?
Scissor gear, again ok for low rpm and same issues as above, not very sporting but its a truck engine.
Current thinking is that low valve angines are good. More eff CC and better port angles which is good for power and emissions (assuming it was designed for it).
Stroke....well that is bad and would mean limit of up to 7000rpm

Do you think it would be possible to eliminate the balance shafts? (Similar to ye olde Astron motrs & 4G63 Evo Lancer motor's?)

7MGTE's have quite a long stroke (91mm i think?) but a narrower bore and seem to make quite good reliable power, what are your thoughts on this (not having a go, just curious)

I agree i'm learinga lot from this thread

[Nero]

why eliminate the balance shafts? The porsche 968 turbo had them...they are necessary for a large cube 4cyl if you want to use it in a road car and you want it to survive. For a drag car the rules and engine design would be completely different and they would not be needed, but then the expected life is very short and the inspections times are far more frequent....as are the rebuilds.
91-95...the 4mm makes a big difference. The info is out there re piston speed and ring packs etc. You will struggle to get 95mm to spin. I am reducing stroke on 90mm crank by approx 2-3mm and it makes a difference when spinning at 7500+. I cannot imagine what the 95mm RZ would be like, the piston accel's would be very high at anything over 6800, the ring pack to survive at this accel's and piston spec would likely NOT allow good seal at low rpm and also would not last that long. Emissions would be an enemy...too poor a seal. Friction loads would also probably be very high at high rpm too.
You can see the amount of work required to make it into a drag engine...there is not much left of the original design...and for good reason. What it would make is a good street engine as it would make lots of torque at relatively low rpm and that would do well with std ratios. For motorsport, well that is a different issue. If someone did one of these up for track work I would be interested in how it goes and surprised if it went well against others and that is including the much greater spend usually associated with a comp engine.

[Fatboy]

I can be a top bloke or I can be a fuck-wit

Can't recall you being a top bloke too often Val... :D

FWIW the Toyota donk is a great little engine for the Hilux - how it would be as a big hp engine is totally dependant on what you want to spend. Much like any other really...

I just wish i'd bought a '03 onwards 2.7 Hilux instead of a fucking V6 Rodeo. Mark that down as another of my more stupid decisions in life...

[bahaimus]

Mark that down as another of my more stupid decisions in life...

The list is long and distinguished.... :D

[Fatboy]

Harsh but fair Clayton...

[Beavis]

The list is long and distinguished.... :D

So's my johnson!

[piss98]

Slider..............you stink.

[Paddington]

Now that brings back memories of that honda bike with the oval pistons...they showed everyone everything but the rings...

NSR500?

[Supercrown]

or better yet just read this


The bottom-end of the new 3RZ-FE engine borrows many strength
and durability features from race-engine technology. It has a deep-skirt
cast-iron cylinder block and fully balanced eight-counterweight crankshaft
for low NVH. The crankshaft has hardened pins and journals, and rolled
fillets, for increased durability.

The connecting rods are forged from a special carbon steel, chosen for its
ability to withstand high operating speeds and pressures while meeting
targets for low reciprocating weight. The conrods are double shot-peened
for increased strength and durability.

The Toyota 3RZ-FE engine has alloy pistons with resin-coated skirts to
reduce friction. There is an oil-jet in each big-end bearing to cool the
under-side of the pistons.

The 3RZ-FE engine also offers plastic region tightening bolts for the
cylinder head, conrods and crankshaft main bearings. Plastic region
tightening provides optimum clamping force for a given weight of bolt.

For package efficiency and high durability, the 3RZ-FE has a low-wear
camshaft timing chain rather than a belt. An oil jet on the hydraulic
chain tensioner lubricates the chain, and the timing chain drives the
inlet camshaft.

Drive to the exhaust camshaft is by "scissor" gear drive from the inlet
camshaft for optimum package efficiency and low noise. Chain drive is also
employed to drive the twin contra-rotating balance shafts. Balance shaft
number two is driven directly by the chain in the same direction as the
crankshaft, while an idler gear is used to drive balance shaft number one
in the opposite direction. In addition to the balance shafts, the Prado
four-cylinder engine has a torsional damper pulley to reduce NVH.

Performance and Economy

Prado's new four-cylinder engine combines high performance with high fuel
efficiency and low emissions. It has square (95mm by 95mm) bore and stroke
dimensions, for a balance of power and low-to-mid-range torque.

Multi-valve cylinder head technology has been adopted for better breathing
and maximum fuel efficiency. The new Prado 3RZ-FE engine has four valves
per cylinder arranged in a compact pentroof combustion chamber with a
19-degree included valve angle.

A high (9.5:1) compression ratio has been adopted to boost torque across
the engine speed range. In addition, the Toyota 3RZ-FE engine has long
intake runners to boost torque and dual inlet ports per cylinder to
maximise the benefits of having two inlet valves per cylinder.

Induction noise has been minimised by fitting a large capacity intake air
resonator to the intake air connector and air cleaner hose, and adopting a
large capacity (7.1 litre) air cleaner.

State-of-the-art exhaust technology includes siamesed exhaust ports, and
four-into-two-into-one headers. The 3RZ-FE engine also has advanced
electronic fuel injection and electronic spark advance systems. The EFI
system has a hot-wire type air-flow meter to measure air mass flow, for
maximum reliability and accuracy over the full flow range.

The Toyota 3RZ-FE has been designed for high reliability and low NVH.
Reliability features include a crankshaft-drive trochoidal oil pump, a
V-ribbed belt to drive the water pump and a composite carbon/stainless
steel head gasket. In addition, the 3Z-FE engine has a Toyota-developed
linear three-stage fluid-coupled engine cooling fan to reduce noise and
vibration. Reliability and weight-saving features also include an
aluminium radiator core and an alloy camcover.


I must say it does look like a good piece of kit, any comments?

Aaaaahhhh-very interesting indeed!!

When I had my 1FZ-FE apart (self inflicted after it sucked in some underbonnet insulation when I ran it with the airfilter off..-nice work Captain Cockface) I noticed the conrods had a very peculiar look to them-It looked like shot-peening, but I didn't think it actually was.

Prettymuch everything else is the same-except the balance shafts and the bore is 100mm.

The crank was fantastic-beautiful radiused counterweights, lots of balancing drill hole locations-indicating that the balancing process during the crank machining is quite thorough, as was the webbing in the block and general layout. My only 'concern' was the basic 2 bolt mains and a lack of a crank girdle-but then if it was there I would have been pretty surprised.

I was also a little skeptical of the single row timing chain and scissor drive cams, but to be realistic, if toyota had equipped a 4wd engine with a wide angle head and belt drive ala 2J, 1J etc then they would have been wasting money and space. These engines are about making torque and making it quickly (long stroke, long runners), and what happens in the top end is all a bit irrelevant really.

My engine set up is one for a few dyno pulls and belts down the 1/4, and handles such stuff admirably. However, I am under no illusions that if it were subjected to multiple minutes of WOT at 20psi with the existing cooling setup that it would all end in tears quite rapidly.

At the end of the day the 1FZ, and hence the 3RZ also, is not meant to be a performance engine. However, one of the reasons I belive they respond well to, and survive, turbocharging is the overengineering present in the form of excellent block design, bullet proof rods, modern metallurgical technology in the pistons, seemingly oversized bearing surfaces (in my 1FZ anyway-although that's really just an estimation) and the convenient way the narrow angle heads seem to allow higher boost levels before detonation sets in than a wider angle head with similar compression (ie-CA18's tolerate more boost than SR20's).

Time to see how well the 1FZ stands up to the GT42, 22psi boost, race fuel and short runner/big plenum setup....

Whilst I reckon it will crap all over the 11.04 it ran last time on 14psi, pump premium, shitty intake manifold and Trust TD07, suffice to say I shan't be entering it in any hillclimbs soon.......

However, I am entertaining the idea of a visit to Speedweek at Lake Gairdner in the future-.72 overdrive, 2.5 diff gears and 30 inch tall tyres=warp speed. =-)

Take it easy
Sean

[piss98]

Excellent post and good to hear some real life experience.