What's the problem with 4WD's ??

[Peter...]

Sports cars don't neccessarily impose the same sort of pain in the arse problems as Landbruiser-type vehicles, I mean, when was the last time you couldn't see in traffic because a sports car was in the way, or when was the last time you couldn't open your door in a parking lot because a sports car was taking up all the room in his space?

Also, yer average sports car probably stops and steers a lot better than aformentioned Landbruiser.

[Spammy]

4wds are so 1998...the current big thing in stockbroking is pickup trucks (not utes) ....I'm talking dual cab F250's with bling and dark tinted windows.

[Captiva Fan]

let me underline that with a little example...

when I was living in australia there were, as now, zillions of 4wd barges on the road - but I can't recall anyone ever talking about crazy short soccer mums behind the wheel.

You weren't listening to me then; they've been shitting me royally since I got my licence in the late 80's.

FatBoy, look; anything that
* has so many disadvantages for all around it,
* the only thing it's good at is not what it's actually used for,
* is purchased purely for appearances
is something which is being operated by a tool. If you're buying a 4WD because it fits best what you need, then that's fine; and it probably does if you're pulling around 1800kg of car-trailer (hell, don't know that would be much fun even in a 2500kg Landbruiser). You would, however, be in the minority.

Drive one, you'll see how poorly it behaves on the road. However, you might find there isn't much alternative to do what you want to do ... mind you, if I were in your shoes I'd be tempted to by some old diesel Diahatsu Delta, leave it parked at home except when pulling the car trailer, & drive a new Fiesta around day-to-day 'cos in the long run it'd probably all cost less than a 4WD that can safely pull 1800kg (& the Fiesta is a helluva lot more fun to drive!).

[SpaceCowboy]

why should people who want 4WDs require justification for their purchases, but people who want sports cars can do what they want?

Can't have two rules...

Feel free to rip this theory to shreds, but:

If your average sports car (MX5, WRX, whatever) t-bones another car at 60km/h, the occupant of the car that was hit will probably get a broken leg/arm, as that's where the impact point is.

If your average 4WD wagon t-bones another car at 60km/h, the occupant of the car that was hit will have an increased chance of dying, as the impact point is somewhere around their head.

This happened to a friend of mine a few years ago; an F150 hit her Corolla. She's dead. The driver of the truck is in gaol.

[ox!gen]

My biggest gripe with 4wd isn't the environmental impact or that they're more likely to kill their occupant, but that they provide an unnecessary risk to other people who have no choice but to share the roads with them. They protect their occupants in the case of a two car accident with massively superiour momentum and raised impact point, which conversely, severly loweres the chance of surviving being hit by one. Unless people are taking them offroad and using them for their design purpose, they're a disgusting display of selfishness and support a "safety at the expense of your fellow man" attitude. I'd be equally pissed if people drove freighters around to do the school run. Rav 4s and small soft roaders don't bother me at all because they're light when compared to a falcadore and while stupid by design, don't significantly disadvantage my ability to live through another day.

[SpaceCowboy]

They are slow ?? Hmmm, have you driven a Patrol or Prado lately ?? They'd hose a few unsuspecting road users. But i digress, you don't buy a 4WD to run at the drags...

The looks thing is subjective. If you find a turbo VL Calais appealing i think we can deduce that you have taste in your arse...

4mpg ?? Stay off the drugs dude.

Not a Patrol or Prado. ML500 and ML55 though.

Anyway, if you'd read what I said, you'd have picked up on this sentence:

PERSONALLY, I WOULDN'T BUY A 4WD BECAUSE:

Take careful note of the word 'personally'. By this, I mean that is why I wouldn't buy one. I'm not saying this is why everyone shouldn't buy one. They are simply the reasons for me not buying one. Is this a bit clearer? Let me know if I can explain this for you further.

[carazy]

Obviously there are environmental impacts of having BOV's and modified tunes / aftermarket ECU's etc, but i don't see you calling for them to be banned ?? Why ??

Lol.. Um BOV's venting to atmosphere are illegal. Plus modified cars with aftermarket ecu's are by far in the minority. 4x4's are only a menace because there are so many.

[Captiva Fan]

ox!gen, RAV4's & other small soft roaders stop you from having a safe level of forward vision as well as being up high & hence more intrusive when they run into you. All while being less space efficient than the Corolla which they don't drive as well as, use as little fuel as, nor have as much room as.

The hairdressers that drive them should no more be banned from driving them than the RWD Celicas or Volvo 240's they traded out of; but that's not to say their chosen vehicles aren't inferior in almost all ways excepting ego stroking.

[fdrx7]

My stance on 4WDs is the same on my stance on guns. It's not the sensible people I worry about. It's the crazy / incompetent ones who suddenly have a lot more killing power at their disposal that bothers me.

[Captiva Fan]

So, only the people that want them? :D

[Fatboy]

Now we're getting somewhere...

when was the last time you couldn't see in traffic because a sports car was in the way, or when was the last time you couldn't open your door in a parking lot because a sports car was taking up all the room in his space?

When was the last time your peaceful night was shattered by some wanker in a sportscar with the doof doof happening ?? How many times does some spastic with an over-inflated opinion of his cars prestige park in the middle of TWO spots just to ensure he doesn't get any parking dents ??

Both are a pain in the arse really, much of a muchness...

Space Cowboy - Sorry to hear about your friend. That sucks arse - but i'm not convinced that a normal car wouldn't have done the same ??

ox!gen - I don't see people whinging about trucks though ?? Surely they are a bigger concern, what with massive weights, poor brakes and shit handling ??

Drive one, you'll see how poorly it behaves on the road. However, you might find there isn't much alternative to do what you want to do ... mind you, if I were in your shoes I'd be tempted to by some old diesel Diahatsu Delta, leave it parked at home except when pulling the car trailer, & drive a new Fiesta around day-to-day 'cos in the long run it'd probably all cost less than a 4WD that can safely pull 1800kg

I did drive one, just last week. I was surprised just how "car like" the turbo diesel Navara was to drive. Felt comfortable, and great on fuel too...

I intend racing interstate next year, and i'll be farked if i'm driving an old truck 1,000kms and back just because a few softcocks on a forum think a 4WD is bad news...

Plus my boat gets towed up to Brooklyn pretty much every second weekend - i'm sure my girlfriend and others who come with me wouldn't be keen on riding in a truck... The Rodeo struggles with the race car on the back, and the boat and trailer comes in well over 1100kgs so looks like it's time to join the ranks of the hated...

I can't wait for the next PF cruise so i can bring it along, reverse over a few people and push a few small hatchbacks off the road...

[RB30-POWER]

RB30-POWER: You have the right to that opinion, no doubt, but nobody has answered FatBoy's comment - why should people who want 4WDs require justification for their purchases, but people who want sports cars can do what they want?

Can't have two rules...

Well I did sort of answer it?

Just reverse it

A sports car I can see around on the road, it doesn't take up more than one car park, it handles better than a 4x4 (don't require extra skill to maneuver), when a sports car pulls up behind you at night its lights won't blare right into your back window etc. Therfore its no real different to a normal sedan on the actual road and not requiring justification.


Now if the vehicle was used for work purposes, where off-road use was required, im sure people could put up with a few of the 4x4 general issues.

But when every 4th car becomes a 4x4, all these problems become a real issue to the average sedan driver.

[carazy]

What gets me is a Falcon XT V8 will do everything you want without pissing off the PF community. The heavy duty tow pack allows 2300kg.

BTW with regards to diesel it's not really any good for our environment because of the higher temps in Australia.

[ox!gen]

ox!gen - I don't see people whinging about trucks though ?? Surely they are a bigger concern, what with massive weights, poor brakes and shit handling ??

If you read what I wrote more carefully, you'd see that It's not the weight alone that's my problem, it's the reason for it. Trucks will indeed kill you more easily than even a 4x4, but they're carrying food/fuel and whatever else that we need to have on the shelves, and in a way that is the most practical. That, in my opinion justifies the safety disadvantage of them.

4x4s that are never taken offroad have no good reason to pose such a danger to myself and everyone else in a smaller/lower car.


Forg, apart from the comment about specifically forward visibility (which I'd imagine the high driving position would significantly improve), I agree with the unnecessarily higher bumpers and generally pointless design when used on good roads, but disagree that the danger to my life when hit by one is so massive that it frightens me on a daily basis. Quite unlike the fear of being hit by a 2.7tonne landrover.

[Fatboy]

ox!gen - And if you'd read what i wrote you would have known that whatever i buy will be used for towing both a circuit car and a boat (not at the same time), and for some occasional offroad use as well...

What gets me is a Falcon XT V8 will do everything you want without pissing off the PF community. The heavy duty tow pack allows 2300kg.

If i wanted a fuel guzzling taxi, i'd buy an XF Falcon...

P.S - Where would you like me to stick a spare set of wheels, a spare gearbox and diff, jacks, stands, a bare engine, numerous air and power tools, compressor, etc etc ?? My arse is pretty big, but even i couldn't fit that much up there...

A TD Navara is cheaper on fuel, a shitload less to insure, can go bush on the odd occasions we go camping, and will let me put the boat in on ramps where the Foulcan would slide arse first into the water. Next suggestion ??

Oh, and it's bedtime, got a 5.30am start. Looking forward to reading this thread tomorrow afternoon though...

Cheers,
Paul...