Watched a P plater crash yesterday

[tinkerbell]

And unless you do go to a skid pan, the likelyhood of being in such a situation is pretty slim for drought ridden city slickers..

yes, skidpan/skid-circuits are great, for fun and driver education...

even in FWD cars :D

[The Pupat]

Disconnect the ABS. I hate the ABS on mine and have had the plug pulled for years.

Cal.

That's fuckin insane. After trying the ABS in my brothers car whilst doing braking tests at mount cotton I definitely want ABS in my next daily driver. There is no way in hell I can beat a computer at not locking a wheel when stopping. Absolutely no effort involved in stopping. Hit brakes hard as possible, turn to avoid acco, keeping driving along. Doesn't get any easier than that really.

[floody]

Its unreal, must be idiot month or something. This past week theres been 3 rollovers on one inter-urban highway here, roughly the same area and all at peak hour, and one other interesting acco at a curved intersection which had one car jammed up a bank and yet another on its roof... About a week before that a bit of icy highway took 5 cars in the space of an hour, one up the centre armco/wire thingy, one on its roof in the drain, one in a drain after hitting a parked cop car which had its lights and hazards on (!), and the others up the bank on the side. The cops were there cautioning people, standing outside cars which all had their flashers on, yet all the aforementioned idiots just plowed on at 110kmh! In the week up to tuesday there had been 50 rain/ice incidents recorded!

So many people have ZERO idea about controlling a car on anything bar dry, straight tarmac at 60. I'm glad I walk to work and only drive the car at times when generally the roads are pretty clear.

[Madhatr]

Coming home in the morning on tuesday, tired, pissing down with rain. Come around a blind corner coming into curtis falls, woman in an EB falcon has lost control and is sliding side on (covering both lanes) heading towards me at great speed.

It is a terrible corner, i was in the corner when she just appeared, i ended up grabbing the brake and steering to the left and running off the shoulder just to avoid her.

She ended up knocking over a bunch of road markers, mounting the footbridge then crashing into a tree at about 20km/h.

If i hadnt have been paying 100% attention i doubt there would have been any way to avoid her, im just glad i was actually taught how to change directions quickly in an emergency while keeping the vehicle under control. So many variables that would have resulted in me smashing into something down the right hand side of her car.

She wasnt speeding, simply a case of driving too fast for the conditions and her level of ability.

[Madhatr]

while im on the subject, you know what shits me at the moment? all this to do with the road surface and different asphalt grades.

They media went off on a stupid mission to blame someone, when main roads admitted there was cause for concern, they made it seem like it was the reason for every accident which occured in the past. Never mind that the recent fatality was caused by insane driving, just totally ignore the number of road users who have traveled on the same section in the past 2 years, it has to be the road surface.

To top it off there was a public outcry when the guy who is heading a report into the section of road said he didnt think there was anything to worry about. He's like the only person talking with a little common sense, when will people stop blaming everything else around them and recognise a dangerous level of inadequacy exists within the motoring public.

How people get their licences without experiencing varying road conditions is beyond me, ive got a friend who has never driven in rain, it just shouldnt happen. Every time it rains he rushes his car home because he is worried about paint damage :o He's the same sort of person that is likely to loose control of his vehicle and punt it off the road in adverse weather conditions, not hoons with high powered cars. You have to wonder who is in the majority here and who gets the most attention (from both the public, the media and the relevent authorities and governments).

[BigMuz]

That's right madhatr. Imagine we have a really cold snap and get snow in capital cities- there will be absolute carnage!

Muz

[browny]

The F3 is the freakiest road i've ever been on in the wet. I find it crazy enough in the dry (esp the 5PM sprint out of Sydney) and things don't seem to change in the wet, regardless of the condition.

[tandy ass]

Its clearly obvious that road fatalities are directly related to road conditions for the past 10 or so years. Booze buses aren't any more effective because there aren't any more of them. Everybody with a brain knows revenue cameras do nothing.

The other night on Warburton Hwy a car broke down with no lights or power on a dark unlit section of road, the only way I saw it was because I have two 100w spotties to help see on these roads. On low beams I would have missed it till it was far too late. So I pulled up to the side, aimed the highbeams onto this car to make it very visible from a distance, put my hazards on and got out to help. No less than two cars only noticed it at the last second and locked up, sliding straight into the oncoming lane (road curved left at a slight angle). Had the road been straight, both of these cars would have hit the broken down car. I'm only imagining the accidents that would have occured if I didn't light up the car with the highbeams. Even a blind monkey who's not paying attention would see a very brightly lit broken down white car from at least 500m away. Anyway we pushed it off the road, I ensured the lady had someone coming to help her and got out of there.

It is a terrible way to look at it but the road situation can only get better after it gets a lot worse. We need many more people to have serious accidents before anybody will actually do something about it.

[fury]

Skid handling and "traction control" (not the device, learning how to understand/work with the sliding of your car if it loses traction) I think should be a mandatory part of driving training and getting your P's.

Looking back to those days, most of my near misses were in the wet and a lot of accidents that friends, etc were involved in could have simply been avoided (or at the very least reduced in seriousnous) if they had simply known how to control the car when it loses traction. And you can whinge all you like about "hoonish" behaviour such as attempted drifting and the like, but fact is, most young people at least do it once or twice as a bit of an experiment or by accident. Some keep doing it, learning as they go, and often fucking up in the process... which is where the road injuries occur.

I assume this is still the case, but during my driving tests, etc to get my P's.. I can't remember ONE mention of what to do if the car lost traction.. other than stupid "how to parallel park" and things like that.. Sure, those are slightly important too, but doesn't really save any lives on the whole. I think knowing what to do when something goes wrong is actually much much more valid. When you first get your licence, you get confronted with a slippery road, and something happens - what do you do. You simply DON'T KNOW as you have never been taught. So many P platers are simply too scared to even drive in the rain, due to near misses or actual minor wet related accidents. Even my bro I remember his hands were almost shaking when driving in the rain, just because there are so many more things to think about and he wasn't too used to it.

I'll admit a few years ago, I did pretty much slide the tail at where it seemed safe to do so in a RWD, just to get a bit of a better understanding of how the car did handle when you lost it. And hey, sometimes it was fun when you knew it was *fairly* safe to do so (on an empty street etc) and you learned a lot unofficially.

I think a massive number of deaths could be avoided if better "traction control" knowledge and testing was a mandatory part of getting your P's... Should even be enforced onto all other drivers with existing licences as well to go do a $100 course, rather than get stung by a $100 fine for something or other each year.

In fact, when I think about it, its kind of atrocious that its not, as many lives would definitely be saved each year. You lose control in a car if you have never done it before, what do you do ?? Some yank the wheel, slam the brakes, do all sorts of stupid things, slam into a pole, bang, dead. If its unexpected, what do you do?

Even now, with 10 years driving experience or so, whilst I know roughly what to do when the ass skids out I am not an expert. And how would I know? Other than trying it in fun, and being a bit stupid sometimes do I know a little bit more than some that drive with all seriousness at all time.

[Shifty]

That's fuckin insane. After trying the ABS in my brothers car whilst doing braking tests at mount cotton I definitely want ABS in my next daily driver. There is no way in hell I can beat a computer at not locking a wheel when stopping. Absolutely no effort involved in stopping. Hit brakes hard as possible, turn to avoid acco, keeping driving along. Doesn't get any easier than that really.

Depends on the car. I can easily outbrake the ABS on my old man's '04 Pajero. Put me in a modern BMW sedan and I wouldn't have a chance of outbraking the ABS computer.

[Sir Revalot]

Couldn't have put it better myself Predator666. It's pretty disturbing at how shit some people are at driving.

I myself have done some stupid stuff on the roads in my younger years and what would be classed as 'hoonish behaviour' (never really got into burnouts though - too expensive!) No, I'm not proud of it, but I did learn a lot and what I did learn has saved me a couple of times in normal, sedate driving conditions.

[THE ASH]

I agree with most of Predator666 post, altho when I did my test they made me do emergency braking - simulating kid running out on street after ball in suburbia kind of thing. Non ABS car & you had to stop as fast as possible without locking up. I agree, there should be stacks more of it.

[browny]

Like I said in the P plater thread, i'm yet to be convinced that advanced driver training is going to be effective when rolled out to the masses. It all sounds fine and dandy in the context of PF, where everyone is interested in cars and takes pride in their driving skills, but will you average joe who only wants a license to get from A to B really take any of it on board?

There are plenty of people who struggle to get basic manouvers like reverse parking etc right, which leaves me wondering whether teaching an advanced skill is worthwhile at all.

Now i'm not saying that I think we shouldn't have any practical driver training of this type, only that I'm not convinced it's the be all and end all that some people seem to think. In the context of a larger hazard avoidance program I think it would be very useful to emphasise exactly why the avoidance part of the training is so important.

[Jim]

Like I said in the P plater thread, i'm yet to be convinced that advanced driver training is going to be effective when rolled out to the masses. It all sounds fine and dandy in the context of PF, where everyone is interested in cars and takes pride in their driving skills, but will you average joe who only wants a license to get from A to B really take any of it on board?

I say yes, but only because of the motorcycle course I HAD to do to get my bike licence, and observing the diverse selection of Newcastle's not so brainy motorcycle hopefuls all complete what is in fact a difficult hands - on test.


I would be much more cynical if not for this experience. Your average Aussie after all is a disinterested moron at best, same as any nation.

[tinkerbell]

my dad musta taught me car control (and car passion),

i learnt friction point on a hill, then how to spin them, easy in mums 180B, there was not much kanga-hopping after that, then i tried to drive exactly how he did, i thought that this was how everyone else should drive so i copied it,

then when driving, i leant how to react to the car as it was feedback mechanism... as this developed, i developed my cars handling, braking and speed...

as both rose, so did my overall proficiency, then ... i hit the track and everything that i 'thought i knew' about driving was demolished and a whole new level of G-force became a reality, much to my delight :D

maybe they (other drivers) will never realise this level of performance from a car is possible, you see them slowing for corners unnecessarily etc, and maybe this is why we can sit here musing about their antics, without there being really a solution

reason for ramble?

maybe it is that i am just a better driver than most other drivers.

not most of *you* other drivers, but better than most of the rest of the other drivers. (i am probably just an *average* driver amongst PFers)

but maybe if they DID make compulsory driver training for all drivers, like it appears so simple with bikes, so why not for cars? theory and practical, over 4 or 5 days on weekends maybe? the cost of the course? well it should be easily covered by the savings from carnage on the road...

and now the parents,

maybe i was lucky, and parents mostly are the 'shit other drivers', so their kids copy THEM and become just as proficient as being as shit as their parents?

bit harsh, but sadly it might be true.

i.e. even with driver training, apathy and shit driving will still be perpetuated, albeit with more 'trained' drivers being that little bit luckier then they would have been...