Ford Engineers...

[jampac]

Mind you, what's the knuckledragger quotient among users of your software, and how does it compare to the society group labeled "Ford XR Drivers" ...

Well interesting point as the forum at work is made up of customers who are mainly engineers (how some got there degrees is debatable) themself, so its engineers talking to engineers, so uber geek/inflated egos talk and all that goes on, were as your xr owner is most likely a bogan (possibly how ford sees it sending in marketing goons rather than true blue aussie ford engineers), edo is probably the exception there, so the convo needs to be dumbed down to the single digit IQ level... I reckon I'll cop a bit of abuse from that statement :D

[Roadsailing]

software engineers aren't real engineers :D

they were probably just call centre operators trained up for the job, to answer questions like "why is the turbo faster than the V8, i thought nothing was faster than the V8"

and as for the emissions, i would talkt to a clued up aftermarket ECU tuner/EPA accredited workshop, not an engineer in the automotive industry

[mirage]

and as for the emissions, i would talkt to a clued up aftermarket ECU tuner/EPA accredited workshop, not an engineer in the automotive industry

I think an engine cal engineer from Holden or Ford should be able to have some input on that topic.

In general though, I find a lot of engineers in the automotive industry can be very succesful without knowing much about cars at all. This is not a criticism of them, as their job is to meet specifications of their project, not know everything about modifying cars. In this respect, you are right in saying that an aftermarket source is guaranteed to have some knowledge, but whether they will share it for free is a seperate issue.

[Nero]

The aftermarket source will also have a limited knowledge which is based on their limited role, which in essance in to get customers in and out to keep their business going. There is little product development in the sense of durability testing etc and they do benefit from the development that has gone on before their changes. The EPA acredited workshops would have a better idea of the testing procedures I agree, but again their scope is usually immediate/short term.
But we have covered all of this ground before many times. The Ford ECU is very clever and cannot be altered ala the Delco. But I am sure that there will be ways around it given time. It has been admitted by some engineers in the biz that things such as the MoTeC m880 etc are never going to be the equivalent to the original ECU as far as smarts/capability on a day to day level. They are far simpler...but crucially much easier to use.

[jampac]

software engineers aren't real engineers :D

So there not engineers even thru some have electrical and mechanical engineering degrees?

[AlexinPerth]

software engineers aren't real engineers :D

Here we go..

I beg to differ. It's possible to write software without an engineering approach, just the same as it's possible to build cars without engineering.
People always relate software development to the backyard cut & shut type operation, because historically, there's been a lot of that going on.

For an industry in it's infancy (compare to how long has mech engineering been a discipline), software engineering has come a long way, but to claim that there is no engineering involved is simply untrue.

Unless of course, you're just pulling our leg, in which case I'll shut up

Alex.

[The Pupat]

Nope no leg pulling software engineer != real ginger beer.

[Captiva Fan]

Interesting you say the ecu can do all the emissions control, even in realtime while the engine wears. It would have to be an extremely complex piece of electronics to do that, something I could never imagine from a ford unfortunately.

That functionality would have to rely on there being pre-programmed parameters in the system; ie. so it knows what that particular engine is gonna do when the computer is getting certain inputs. I can't see it being possible to stick the computer & associated sensors onto a completely different engine, & know what pollutants it's going to put out; I can't see that it's possible to take air & fuel input measurements, and exhaust-temp & lamba/oxygen-content output measurements, and calculate what the CO, CO2, NOx, etc etc are going to be in general. They'd have to have done a lot of development with that engine, in order to have these wear & pollutant characteristics pre-mapped.

[AxGT]

software engineer != real ginger beer

/me points to my BE

suck it


Ken

[Captiva Fan]

Actually, that's my BE you're pointin' at there.
Oh, now it's damned close to 9 months since I've moved into your neighbourhood, I'll have to get off my fat arse & organise some Christmas drin><. Should round-up Spammy & head down the Woolwich Pier Hotel one Saturday or Sunday ...

[Nero]

BE...pffft...points to 3x Ba App Sc and MA app Sc and then PELS and HCS debt...ok so 3 of those qualifications are my wife's...but I still have to pay for them!

[Captiva Fan]

PELS ... isn't that an arch-bishop or something?

[AxGT]

sounds good forg.

oh, and Nero - one degree is enough hecs debt for me at the moment

Ken

[fdrx7]

Here we go..

I beg to differ. It's possible to write software without an engineering approach, just the same as it's possible to build cars without engineering.
People always relate software development to the backyard cut & shut type operation, because historically, there's been a lot of that going on.

For an industry in it's infancy (compare to how long has mech engineering been a discipline), software engineering has come a long way, but to claim that there is no engineering involved is simply untrue.

Unless of course, you're just pulling our leg, in which case I'll shut up

Alex.

....and you would be.... a software "engineer"?

In my experience the only people that think software "engineers" are engineers are software guys. In reality a BE doesn't mean shit. I have / do work with guys with BEs who have spent a lifetime paper shuffling / tech writing. Some of them even have CPEng.

[Captiva Fan]

In my experience the only people that think software "engineers" are engineers are software guys.

That's partially because the term 'engineer' came about before software existed, and partially because the mechanical engineers & civil engineers etc don't know how to write software the right way so they don't see the approach that's supposed to be taken when doing so.
As someone else said above, anyone can jerry-build a car, but engineering a good design is a different issue.