Final Nail for GM???

[kwottro]

...

Letting them go under has many positive outcomes....by going Chapter 11 they would have the opportunity to restructure the health care pensions which are killing them. Many of the airlines have gone Ch11 just for this reason.

...

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Chapter 11 seems to be the biggest rort in corporate America ? To my (simple) mind, if a company is badly managed / badly timed / badly placed enough to go bankrupt, shouldn't it be broken up and sold of so that the creditors get at least something back ? Rather than have the chance to make the same stuff-ups again. I mustard mitt I don't really understand the finer points, but I can't see the logic of such 'protection' for these companies. Enlightenment, Spammy ?

[Ustasa]

That means Ford finally wins!

Yeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss!!!!!

[Spammy]

Ford is about 2-6 mths behind them in terms of the merde hitting the air conditioning

[Shunty]

It's cause they use pushrods.

[Spammy]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Chapter 11 seems to be the biggest rort in corporate America ? To my (simple) mind, if a company is badly managed / badly timed / badly placed enough to go bankrupt, shouldn't it be broken up and sold of so that the creditors get at least something back ? Rather than have the chance to make the same stuff-ups again. I mustard mitt I don't really understand the finer points, but I can't see the logic of such 'protection' for these companies. Enlightenment, Spammy ?

Typically there is more value to be saved/extracted for shareholders and debt holders by keeping a business running and together than by selling it in a fire sale where the buyers will be vulture capitalists.

Real life example:We held a few million exposure to one of the GM related supply companies that went Ch11....we got back 100 % of our money.

[Ustasa]

Ford is about 2-6 mths behind them in terms of the merde hitting the air conditioning

It doesn't matter.

It's he who hits the canvas first that loses

[Spammy]

4 years ago the financial markets were backing Ford to go under first.

[TonyJZX]

I wonder how much can be traced back to our swedish boy Jac Nasser and their rather heavy acquisitions of other motor companies?

[kwottro]

Spammy: Oh. Okay then.

But is it not possible for some companies to abuse Ch11 protection ? (serious question - I obviously have not much clue.)

[Spammy]

Spammy: Oh. Okay then.

But is it not possible for some companies to abuse Ch11 protection ? (serious question - I obviously have not much clue.)

Going into Ch11 is not something that companies do lightly and typically the senior management get arseholed out of there in the process.....which is sort of the punishment element kicking in.


As for Ford buying up the 3rd and 4th tier euros....they were sort of dammed if they did, dammmed if they didn't. The whole world was consolidating and they had to play the game. That being said, WTF they bought Jaguar nobody will ever know.

[CussCuss]

all i ask is that chevy stays in the game till mid 2008 and still has funding

[muttaburra]

I wonder how much can be traced back to our swedish boy Jac Nasser and their rather heavy acquisitions of other motor companies?

the good old expansion through aquisition. always works well for companies...not

[08ESE]

Yep. :D (turns to his 2 trusty Camrys)

do you get seniors discounts and disabled parks?

[Paddington]

the good old expansion through aquisition. always works well for companies...not

you'd think companies would look at past management concepts and learn... but nooooooooo

Still cant believe that Diamler and Chrysler got it on...

[thechuckster]

GM (and Delphi) is what you get when you have:
-a tax system so cheap that it can't support universal health care and social security
-an economic system that relies on share-holder-wealth-generators (e.g. public companies) to manage and sustain retiree medical and pension costs
-a superannuation system dependant on the success of your past & current employer.

Note that we're now getting the same here? Hands up those who voted liberal at the last election? Going to change your tune/vote when you loose overtime penalty rates, superannuation co-contributions, public holidays, free healthcare, wage parity with cost of living, etc. ?