What should he do? legal question engine dead due to workshop

[Jay_G]

Got a quick note to add. dont trust genuine dealers. i "HAD" a cannon on my frontera 2000 3.2L ( i know rice but i did it for something different) and had it recalled for a steering issue. took it into holden and handed the keys over. while i was sitting in the waiting room for them to check it outthrough the walls i heard them them bring it in the workshop and then proceed to rev the crap out of it. even though they werent seeing it for an engine problem. I let it be Known to the guys behind the desk for my THOROUGH dislike of my vehicle being treated that way.

also had a friend drop his 3.8 L commode do a mechanic in melb and after he picked it up had bottom end knock. turned out the mechinc or one of his apprentices hadnt filled it with oil and started it then refilled it and handed back to customer ( my mate) he had to shell out over 4 g for a fresh rebuilt engine.

Moral to the story....... you or your mate will have a very hard time proving guilt

[Denver]

Ohh and the Knock sensor they are talking about for dyno tuning are most like basically a tuned microphone (or at least I'm pretty sure that's what psi999's HKS one is if I remember) it basically tunes out all the other frequencies except the ones where knock occurs at or something like that.

the HKS stuff uses the OEM knockers, you actually tap in the signal for it from the factory loom, or you can slap on your own knock sensor of choice and attach it to the motor at the time..

not a micophone setup..

[Turbo 351]

Don't want to drop names here but last I heard MoTec were still not satisfied that current knock sensor technology was reliable/accurate enough to incorporate it into their systems. Keeping in mind that a false knock reading could act to reduce performance, which may not be a problem with a road car but with a race car..........

This is true. From what i understand they have the technology and have invested alot of time in it, but are still not happy, i think that in it'self is telling us something.
As mentioned most OEM stuff is switched off above 3000 Odd RPM due to not being able to 'tune out' other engine noises.

For the time being i think a set-up like Matt spry uses is the best insurance.

[tineira]

the HKS stuff uses the OEM knockers, you actually tap in the signal for it from the factory loom, or you can slap on your own knock sensor of choice and attach it to the motor at the time..

not a micophone setup..

Knock sensors are piezoelectric microphones.

[MartyHusseinXF]

This is true. From what i understand they have the technology and have invested alot of time in it, but are still not happy, i think that in it'self is telling us something.
As mentioned most OEM stuff is switched off above 3000 Odd RPM due to not being able to 'tune out' other engine noises.

For the time being i think a set-up like Matt spry uses is the best insurance.

3000 RPM !

Dunno about that

Have datalogged a few different makes, they all extended knock sensor feedback to the redline except for WRX which shuts it off at 6500 RPM.

The good OEM ones actually do some basic sound analysis on the input from the knock sensor, to filter out non knock noise, some don't or aren't that good at it, hence the removal of feedback at HIGH revs - never heard of one doing it at any less then 6000 rpm.

Back in the days the Mitsu setup in the EVO's was quite accurate from about 1995 onwards - picking up knock a few moments before a very trained ear with an electronic mic/knock sensor setup would with very few/no false positives.

The reason that Motec would be having issues with their knock sensing setup, would be that they would have to tailor it to so many different cars/engines/setups that would make it nearly impossible to filter out all the knock-like noises coming from any particular setup.

OEM knock sensing setups are MUCH better then people (who normally have no direct experience with them) give them credit for.

[thechuckster]

am not sure what ECU you're running, but it might be useful (for future reference) to get the tuner to log everything they when when the engine is hooked up to a laptop/dyno.

fwiw: the megasquit tuning software will quite happily log engine data until you fill up your hard-drive and the file will be (once recovered) quite readable offline.

By having the log file, you can point to the tuner and say ... see here, how you sat it at 7000rpm at 1.5bar for 5 minutes? why? ...

... and any decent tuning outfit that confirms dyno tune with a quick drive around the block should be logging data to compare against the dyno data

[TJ]

Because the people that claim there isn't a need for knock gear, are, for lack of a better expression, fuckwits..

HAHA!

:rotflol:

[Mr Ed]

Yep youre screwed sorry mate. I think the mechanics offer of cheap(er) bearings is better than I have expected from some workshops. Did they say theyd do a labour slightly cheaper?

Anyways, if you wanna go down the hard road youve gotta convince a judge that the mechanics were negligent....which honestly.....if you cant convince the gurus on here your gonna have a hard time with a judge whos being told the opposite by licensed "professionals".

I think 90% of people in the mod game have similar stories about workshops but unfortunately it usually ends getting worse for the owner if they kick and scream about it. Just bend over and if youre luck theyll use a little KY.

[maddy]

when my rotor dropped a seal on the dyno at 3000rpm and 2psi boost we came to an agreement to rebuild the motor for around half the normal price. I also didnt pay for that dyno tune. i was pretty happy in the end (it was rebuilt in 4 days )

[Denver]

Knock sensors are piezoelectric microphones.

True, i was aiming to point out its not a normal audio mike shoved in there, which ive seen done before..

[Big George]

Just get them to do all the work you want done.

Once it's finished, you take it for a spin around the block and don't come back. :D

They can't prove you DIDN'T actually pay for it now can they??

Hehehhe.

[GT R31]

Nice effort digging up an old thread there Big George

[slip]

I reckon its also a weird thing that a workshop want the owner to help...or is this just another normal thing that happens outside my sheltered life?

I helped Mercury Motorsport in Bris to build a friends car on a deadline (found out I had to do this after being offered the drive @ QR drift day, sneaky friend). Bloody 2am nights.

EDIT: Didnt read stupid resurrection dates. WTF Big George.

[Uncle Henry]

seen as its been resurrected, what happened in the end?

[Calibrator]

As a tuner sometimes shit happens that you have no control over.
Like the VE with Franklin cams that I was tuning and after 1 visit to 8000 rpm ( customer said cams peaked at that point) it ran bearings.
Customer was there and of course I was the twat. After stripping the sump off I found bits of all 4 piston squirters lying there.
Turns out a famous engine builder fitted some 1.6 pistons to raise the compression and they hadnt notched the skirts to clear the squirters.
Engine builder told him to piss off it couldnt possibly be his fault and when he persisted in phoning them he was threatened with a beating.