Attack of conscience

[dirtyrex]

I'd say more people would leave their cars at home and ride their bikes if the governments actually provided somewhere safe to ride them into the CBD. Even though my daily ride to work is short, I still worry about being run over by a SUV. (I don't have a car ATM - I ride everyday).

[SHEEL]

I use Public Transport everyday. And my car is on LPG. I feel that I am doing my part.

But I do agree that people as a whole are much too reliant on cars and many other things which harm the environment.

[Motorsportlady]

-More freeways so that less fuel is used from reduced stop and start driving.
-Establish and promote biofuels derived from crops produced in greenhouses with enriched CO2 atmospheres.
-Increased use of energy efficiency measures.
-Increased use of hybrid technology on public transport or the use of renewable energy to power electric train networks.
-Increased use of CO2 capture and storage technology (could use the captured CO2 for production of biofuels, as above)
-Increased use of lightweight materials for cars (less weight = less energy required to reach a certain velocity)
-More efficient use of water (less energy used to pump and treat water due to reduced demand per capita and could avoid the need for desalination plants if demand is reduced sufficiently enough)

Lots of ways to do it.

These things are great,....but, until you can introduce them into the high population/high poluting nations i.e. China (have any of you been there lately to see the polution above all chinese cities, a chinese friend could not believe the colour of our skies, and the clean smell of our air). There needs to be a global effort, and unfortunately, I think it will take something pretty catastrophic to produce that sort of change.

[jampac]

There are already toll differences for cycles, cars and trucks.

I see what you mean in that private toll owners will not want anything that can reduce revenue and increase complexity.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that lowering tolls for hybrids is gonna increase usage but it's something to consider.

Perhaps they can charge a flat car rate ie max rate for those without etags, and those with tags get charged on the vehicle weight on a sliding scale so even heavy 4 cylinder audis get hit up at the toll booth.

However to do this, they'd need yet another incentive from the government, ie more blocked streets in and around toll roads.

[Bulgogi]

These things are great,....but, until you can introduce them into the high population/high poluting nations i.e. China (have any of you been there lately to see the polution above all chinese cities, a chinese friend could not believe the colour of our skies, and the clean smell of our air). There needs to be a global effort, and unfortunately, I think it will take something pretty catastrophic to produce that sort of change.

I agree. The way I see it, every little bit done helps, and I'm all for more efficient ways of using energy where possible and feasible. China will have to do something to curb their soaring energy use at some point, as costs of energy imports will rise and impact on the profit margins of their exports. The general lower cost of production over there should easily allow them to implement energy-efficiency measures and technologies and remain competitive with the rest of the world without too much trouble.

The US will be a bit of a tough nut to crack and convince them to come to the table. I think there is a third or something like that of the total amount of greenhouse gas emissions in the world that they themselves are accountable for. But from what I know, some individual US states are starting to form their own carbon trading schemes, so it could be a step towards a US-wide carbon market, which would go a fair way to reducing greenhouse gas emissions from them.

[bv]

These things are great,....but, until you can introduce them into the high population/high poluting nations i.e. China (have any of you been there lately to see the polution above all chinese cities, a chinese friend could not believe the colour of our skies, and the clean smell of our air). There needs to be a global effort, and unfortunately, I think it will take something pretty catastrophic to produce that sort of change.

errr as far as I know the highest polluting country is the US.

point taken though i can't stand staying for longer than a week in china or india cities, i end up feeling crook, and im pretty sure its not the vindaloo or suzcho chicken

[Bulgogi]

China's not too far behind, though, and is projected to surpass the US in emissions outputs in the near future, given the ways things are going.

[jmac]

Does anyone here know (I read it somewhere) that a volcanic eruption somewhere a few years ago released more greenhouse gases than humans had in the whole of the 20th century? I wouldn't doubt it to be honest.

The best indication of future behaviour is past behaviour. We will use fossil fuels until the moment we run out, and not a minute before. And no amount of bullshit will stop that short of wiping out humanity.

Like the new incentive by the govt for lpg cars. What a load of shit. All that is for is so in a few years they can jack the price up for all lpg users 'what are you complaining about, you got a $2000 rebate, and it's only a few cents dearer'

[jmac]

Does anyone here know (I read it somewhere) that a volcanic eruption somewhere a few years ago released more greenhouse gases than humans had in the whole of the 20th century? I wouldn't doubt it to be honest.

The best indication of future behaviour is past behaviour. We will use fossil fuels until the moment we run out, and not a minute before. And no amount of bullshit will stop that short of wiping out humanity.

Like the new incentive by the govt for lpg cars. What a load of shit. All that is for is so in a few years they can jack the price up for all lpg users 'what are you complaining about, you got a $2000 rebate, and it's only a few cents dearer'

[Sturmovik]

Volcanic eruptions and decaying land vegetation/animals makes up nearly 50% of the earths yearly carbon dioxide emissions, another half is from the oceans

Humans make up 3% of the Carbon dioxide.

[sherb]

Lets go Amish...

No seriously. This wold is driven by money...

More money = more things happening
= more transport
= more buying
= people getting richer
= people spending more
= more newer cars
= more of EVERYTHING

Just enjoy it now, you're gonna die anyway as you said.

The whole world is totally banana'd, you aren't going to change anything.
Blame Johnny, Bush, Blair and all the other cumguzzlers that were before them.

[sherb]

Volcanic eruptions and decaying land vegetation/animals makes up nearly 50% of the earths yearly carbon dioxide emissions, another half is from the oceans

Humans make up 3% of the Carbon dioxide.

I like this... But where the hell did those stats come from?

[Sturmovik]

Taken from here

http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1523.htm
http://mitosyfraudes.8k.com/INGLES/Warm.html


The CO2 content in the atmosphere and atmospheric temperature have never been stable; they have fluctuated since the dawn of time. Geological evidence shows that the atmospheric con-centration of CO2 which is now about 350 ppmv, was about 5,600 ppmv in the late Ordovician, 440 million years ago;36 340 million years ago, in the Carboniferous period, it was 4,000 ppmv; and about 90 million years ago, in the Cretaceous period, it was about 2,600 ppmv. These extremely high concentrations were obviously not associated with a "runaway greenhouse effect," the mantra of the global warming propagandists.

For the past 100 million years, the average surface temperature of the Earth and the atmosphe-ric CO2 level have been decreasing systematically.37 About 50 million years ago, the CO2 con-centration (2,000 ppmv) was almost six-fold higher than now, but air temperature was higher by only 1.5°C. In the Ordovician, when the CO2 content in air was 16 times higher than it is now, the air temperature in the tropics was not increased, and in the high latitudes, there was the glaciation of Gondwanaland.36

The reason for the lack of relationship between the temperature changes and CO2 concentra-tion in past epochs is that it is not CO2, but water, H2O, that is the main greenhouse gas. It is also the case that increasing CO2 concentration above a certain, rather low level cannot incre-ase the air temperature (see below). It was not CO2 that determined the permanent oscillations of Earth’s climate in the past, but rather changes of the solar constant; these are in step with clirnatic oscillations with a periodicity of about 2,500 years. This is suggested inter alia by gla-cial deposits on the bottorn of the North Atlantic, salt deposits in the glaciers and in the ocea-nic sediments, and the carbon-13 content of tree rings.38

In the longer time scale, the duration of alternating and asymmetric cycles of long glaciations, and much shorter warm inter-glacial periods, was from 20,000 to 400,000 years. Since about 2 million years ago, one cycle has typically lasted about 100,000 years, with glacial cycles that were about 90,000 years long, and warm periods that were about 10,000 years long.6, 40, 41 During the last 85Ó,OOO years, there have been seven or eight such cycles . The temperature difference between the warm and cool phases is 3°C to 7°C.

[Sturmovik]

Source: "Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide" by A. B. Robinson, S. L. Baliunas, W. Soon, and Z. W. Robinson
Figure 1: Surface temperatures in the Sargasso Sea, as determined by isotope ratios of marine organism remains at the bottom of the sea, show that today�s temperatures are not unusually warm for the last 3,000 years. This data, which is similar to other studies of various world locations, shows a period of higher temperatures 1,000 years ago (�Medieval Climate Optimum�) and lower temperatures 300 years ago (�Little Ice Age�). The horizontal line is the average temperature for the 3,000-year period.



Figure 2: It is true that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has been increasing for more than a century (white line). But this increase could not have caused the slight warming that occurred during the same time period (yellow line, based on 11-year moving average). The presumed effect must come after the cause. Yet, as this Figure clearly shows, most of the temperature increase had occurred by 1940, before most of the CO2 increase had occurred.



Figure 3: The Northern Hemisphere surface temperature (white line, based on 11-year moving average) closely tracks the solar intensity of the sun (yellow line), as measured by the solar magnetic cycle length; the shorter the magnetic cycle length, the more active, and hence brighter, the sun. This Figure makes quite clear that the ordinary warming and cooling cycle of the sun is the principal controller of the Earth�s temperature.

[barM3]

I've figured it out (the whole wasteful society epidemic).

I was going to say 'education', but I figure if we make it so you need a license or a permit to have kids then in the next few generations we should see a huge improvement. I mean, you need a permit to own a dog but any idiot can (and does) have kids. If we controlled the amount of people being born and the qulaity of those people, we would have a better educated society. Might ask Mundine to bring it up at the next election.