Formula Vee no longer welcome at QR or Lakeside

[BigMuz]

9triton I was referring to a club trying to cover their costs of running an event; I do think that covers the business owner to some extent too. There are only two types of business owners in these situations; ones who bust their arse for nothing and everybody likes, and ones who make money but that everyone hates.

[dat2kman]

Back to OP, Cal, are the V guys running at the two HRCC meetings, they are doing race events for Historic V's, but the non historic later ones, or non historic yet logbooked ones, may be able to compete under "directors discretion".
Get onto organisers soonish, f this appeals.

I dont know what entry fee difference is between normal state rounds, and the HRCC meetings, but something to consider?

With drivers non CAMS licensed guys, and due to no seoarate OLT ( like NSW) they can run their first event as a OLT, as you know, license costs are down for Clubman Circuit.
If any needs to run at a "National" and requires a full Circuit license, CAMS will issue a "one event upgrade, much cheaper than a full annual Nat Circuit license.

[hrd]

Sprint entry for the 2013 DatNats at Phillip Island is $220.00 and noone is complaining about that, heaps of entries already.

that's because its the same $$ as a normal sprint there, not multiple times the going rate. And if you enter the same things at PI this year as you were forced to at Morgan Park in '09, it's $90 cheaper for the 2013 Nats at PI.

They only needed 30 entries to cover the track costs in '09, the rest was money in the bank. I can't see how Z Car Club only broke even. $45 per head dinner is top dollar at Warwick too, and the $185-210 compulsory show'n'shine entry would have covered alot of overheads... $40 extra for social events... $45 extra for 1/8th mile runs at Warwick drag strip which is more than you pay to run at Willowbank... yeah, broke even! give me a break

People dont't seem to grasp the difference between a "national meeting" and a single-day trackday. One is a multi-day, multi-event social evtravaganza with a track component, the other is just another trackday.

All we were getting for our money was show'n'shine entry and the track day. The "social extravaganza" (lol) was extra $$$.
Put it in perspective for those who actually don't grasp it, at the time it was $88 for a 2 day state championship series supersprint at the same track rather $350 for just a track day at DatNats. Considering that national meeting was just a single track day, that's 8 times more expensive than the state championship rounds. That's why almost none any of the regular sprinters entered. But we were all keen for it when we heard about it and would have paid the $140 entry fee for the track day, but were told we had to enter the show'n'shine as well for some reason which didn't hold much appeal for sprinters. Some BS about the track day not being financially viable as a standalone event was the reason at the time, which we can see is utter nonsense.

[260BC]

You had better join the club Harry, show us how to do it

What should be kept in mind about events run by the Warwick club at MP is that it is their own track all run by volunteers so they will make a profit no matter how little they charge. Buying a day's use of the track is a completely different because you have to outlay a lump sum in advance for track hire, organise and pay where necessary all the personnel and services required at the track and then hope that you will get enough entries to cover everything.

As Dave said, nationals are supposed to be a whole of event experience, not something to pick the eyes out of. As I have already mentioned, the significance of nationals has changed over the years. For a start every boy and his dog running an event has highjacked the 'nationals' name which used to be only used to signify a specific make of car's national event. Whole of track hire costs have soared while track owners run and promote their own events regularly at prices it's usually impossible to match at a club level.

So the traditional car club nationals event now faces a flood of competition, perhaps only the strongest clubs will be able to run them in the future. It's a lot different now compared with say 15 years ago.

[Cal]

Back to OP, Cal, are the V guys running at the two HRCC meetings, they are doing race events for Historic V's, but the non historic later ones, or non historic yet logbooked ones, may be able to compete under "directors discretion".
Get onto organisers soonish, f this appeals.

I have no idea and don't even know any V guys. I'm the president of Prod Sports Qld and just heard about it. I just think it's a disgraceful situation and need to tread carefully, as there is no reason any category couldn't suffer the same fate. Maybe there is more to the story, who knows.

[rollin7]

55k for a weekend 52 weekends in a year $2,680,000 a year

plus whatever you get for weekday rentals

i wonder what his costs are?

[260BC]

My bet is that with the FV blokes the money for Tetley was not there, he could sell the days they wanted for more money elsewhere. The reality is FV is a non event for spectators, there is nothing to promote and draw crowds and publicity, unlike big bangers and other theme categories. The game has changed as has already been discussed.

Be interesting to know what Tetley charges a supercar team for a day at QR.

[scooby36]

so much hate and angst between moneygrabbing tracks and organisers, if only everyone could just get along it'd be so much better for everyone to get out to the track and race.

irace and MRA seem to hate each other, meaning that you cant compete at wakefield and eastern creek without defecting to the other series.

A mate recently made the trip from QLD down to wakefield, won the weekend and did not get a SINGLE PHOTO in the coverage... later realising that he had a small iRace sticker on the quarterpanel... (no one said anything or gave any hint that this was the case) shit like this is so silly.

[SuperDave]

Other than a bigger cafeteria, QR last August looked the same as my previous visit in 2007. Maybe he just doesnt want the hassle of applying for a Cams permit, but he does it for the V8s and Shannons Nats. That said, MP is far more interesting than QR.

My understanding was that Tetley rents the track out to v8sc, and they sort out the CAMS track licence for the weekend themselves, not QR.

[Cal]

^true dat

[Nafe]

My understanding was that Tetley rents the track out to v8sc, and they sort out the CAMS track licence for the weekend themselves, not QR.

That makes more sense. Not sure what they do for Shannons.

[Nafe]

so much hate and angst between moneygrabbing tracks and organisers, if only everyone could just get along it'd be so much better for everyone to get out to the track and race.

irace and MRA seem to hate each other, meaning that you cant compete at wakefield and eastern creek without defecting to the other series.

A mate recently made the trip from QLD down to wakefield, won the weekend and did not get a SINGLE PHOTO in the coverage... later realising that he had a small iRace sticker on the quarterpanel... (no one said anything or gave any hint that this was the case) shit like this is so silly.

Get him to look up Scott Walker on Facebook. He should have photos of everyone. I don't believe he has any allegiance to any series.
And yes it's silly.

[Steve]

Last race meet (QRDC) I was at with FV was an abortion they had multiple oil downs per race and as the day progressed all other groups lost track time. FV were not popular at all and it was expressed at a heated drivers meeting at the end of the day that was the case. As for any arrangement for nationals 2013 I have no knowledge, but it was pretty evident that if the vehicles were not of a minimum standard they wouldn't be welcome and, as I see it most of FV are old smoulderers driven by old smoulderers.

Having said that, as an enthusiast I can understand their point of view re exclusion but I think there may be a lot more to it than a conversational misunderstanding.

[Glenno]

My bet is that with the FV blokes the money for Tetley was not there, he could sell the days they wanted for more money elsewhere. The reality is FV is a non event for spectators, there is nothing to promote and draw crowds and publicity, unlike big bangers and other theme categories. The game has changed as has already been discussed.

Be interesting to know what Tetley charges a supercar team for a day at QR.

They get charged the going rate for exclusive hire of the track, last time I organised a day it was $6k, which was a few years ago so its probably more now.

The general agrement when supercar testing is that one team hires the track and everyone chips in on a per car basis (Hire Fee / Total Number of Cars = Your Contribution Per Car), depending on how the day was organised sometimes the hirer dictates that they can have the track to themselves for short periods throughout the day if they need it. Keep in mind that this is a "Dry Hire" so you get nothing other than, acess to the track, power, water, toilets.

With the CAMS licence deal my understanding is this:

QR refuses to pay for a CAMS licence for the whole year.
V8 Supercars testing rules dictate that test tracks must be part of the calander.
QR is the only permanent track in QLD on the calander.
The next closest permanent test track is currently Eastern Creek (several years ago it was Winton when EC was off the calander)
There are several major V8 Supercar teams based in QLD.
CAMS licence issue gets bought up every now and then and then goes away.

[clutch-monkey]

at a PCQ sprint day at MP one of the guys drives a VY (i think) V8 supercar with the club for fun. they had some issue about running a V8 supercar there, even though it was privately owned and not in any series??