V8 Supercar discussion thread

[Its me]

Fuck yeh, good skids!!

Ken oath bro.

[irsa76]

You get the package that you paid for not necessarily the latest and greatest.

This is the top level we're talking about here, I don't think you'd have a team who is trying to play at the pointy end paying for a cheese burger when everyone else is paying for a big mac.

[leothedrummer]

Awesome drive by SVG. Was watching with live timing on hand and the back and forth between him and Waters was immense. They'd trade sectors by a half a tenth each lap, then SVG would pull out a big number and stretch the gap. Must have been demoralising for Waters and car 6, as any other year and that would have been a race winning drive.

On the other hand, I wish this race (and Supercars as a whole) would be based on who is the best racer / overtaker. Shane won by being the best hot lapper, I want to know who the best racer is. Now that shouldn't be taken as a sledge on Shane, but more about the category as a whole. Besides that wet stint, how many genuine overtakes did car #97 do? Or car 6? Or any of the other leaders. Fingers crossed for Gen3 rulebook being the goods, but I can't help but think of how much I wish we had 40+ car grids again. They got rid of the backmarkers to try and raise the standards, well that worked for a while but I think we're passed it now. I miss the days of cheering for drivers just to finish or to score a miracle top-15, or seeing who can cut through traffic most effectively.

[TJ]

Was just saying to a mate this race showed the issue with where the cars have gone. Passing is not easy.

Kostecki drove bloody well.

Felt for percat. Bjr had a disaster.

Scott's skids - stout!

[hotgemini]

Kostecki drove bloody well.

Huh? Kostecki the mobile chicane who should consider himself fortunate not to have been turned at the kink by one of the grown-ups for how he was driving?

Bjr remains a disaster.

Fixed

[MZ21]

Awesome drive by SVG. Was watching with live timing on hand and the back and forth between him and Waters was immense. They'd trade sectors by a half a tenth each lap, then SVG would pull out a big number and stretch the gap. Must have been demoralising for Waters and car 6, as any other year and that would have been a race winning drive.

On the other hand, I wish this race (and Supercars as a whole) would be based on who is the best racer / overtaker. Shane won by being the best hot lapper, I want to know who the best racer is. Now that shouldn't be taken as a sledge on Shane, but more about the category as a whole. Besides that wet stint, how many genuine overtakes did car #97 do? Or car 6? Or any of the other leaders. Fingers crossed for Gen3 rulebook being the goods, but I can't help but think of how much I wish we had 40+ car grids again. They got rid of the backmarkers to try and raise the standards, well that worked for a while but I think we're passed it now. I miss the days of cheering for drivers just to finish or to score a miracle top-15, or seeing who can cut through traffic most effectively.

Why not include the Super 2 grid as well?

[leothedrummer]

The Shane v Cam battle was great, but it was about who could pull out the extra .05 each sector every couple of laps, not who was able to pull off the big move when it counted.

Kostecki copped too much unfair flak from the commentary team. Besides his first rejoin at the chase - which was a bit sketchy for the second change of direction - he didn't block a single car. Didn't defend, didn't block, didn't swerve, just drove the racing line lap after lap. I was actually thinking he was making it too easy in the last stint by not defending into turn 2.

The fact that someone like Jamie Whincup in a 888 car can't pull a clean overtake on a co-driver in an Erebus car that is having a shocker year says there's something terribly wrong with the cars...not with Kostecki's driving.

[leothedrummer]

Why not include the Super 2 grid as well?

I'm 100% on board with that, though the answer to that question seems to be money. Super2 cars are still apparently extremely expensive to run. I'd almost like to see a bunch of MARC cars in the field.

If you look at that grid in the main game, there's really only 10-15 ok to good quality cars in the field.

DJRTP - 2
888 - 2
Tickford - 2 definitely, 3/4 maybe?
WAU - 2
BJR - 1, maybe 2
Kelly - 1 at a time apparently
Erebus - 2
Mr Forklift - 2

Cars 3, 4, 19, 22, 34 and 35 are all pretty pointless entries, so I wonder what those teams could do if they moved to something cheaper.

What if we had 17, 12, 88, 97, 6, 55, 2, 25, 8, 14, 7, 9, 99, 18, 20 as full fledged Supercar entries, then the rest of the field running either a detuned / cheaper spec / off the shelf style car? Either a lower spec Supercar or something different like a MARC car. 5-10 seconds off the main cars at Bathurst. That field would be made up of the other 10 cars left out from my list, maybe even additional entries from those teams if it's half the cost or so, as well as more entries from Super2 / AusGT /B12H style teams. That's 15 front running cars wowing spectators with noise and speed, all fighting for wins and then another 10-20 or so tightly competitive class cars racing hard amongst themselves and really testing the main field?

If you wanted you could even have that 2nd class be completely spec but then open up the development in the main class, if things were going healthy and teams were feeling adventurous.

Unfortunately it's all a dream I'm afraid. The format we have today was a massive hit from say, 1995 to 2005. But like a megastar rock band still touring off success from the "golden days".....let it go.

Edit: It's worth pointing out that for all the fanfare and back patting about the excitement and variety of the tyre lottery races, 26 of 31 races were still won by DJRTP/888.

[S_E]

Good to see SVG win after that stall/starter failure in the pits when he had it in the bag a few years ago.

Kostecki copped too much unfair flak from the commentary team. Besides his first rejoin at the chase - which was a bit sketchy for the second change of direction - he didn't block a single car. Didn't defend, didn't block, didn't swerve, just drove the racing line lap after lap. I was actually thinking he was making it too easy in the last stint by not defending into turn 2.

The fact that someone like Jamie Whincup in a 888 car can't pull a clean overtake on a co-driver in an Erebus car that is having a shocker year says there's something terribly wrong with the cars...not with Kostecki's driving.

Agreed, he was great, and holding them off by driving the racing line and not moving, rather than defending, which worked well as he wasn't compromising his exits, excellent drive.

[irsa76]

I'm 100% on board with that, though the answer to that question seems to be money. Super2 cars are still apparently extremely expensive to run. I'd almost like to see a bunch of MARC cars in the field.

If you look at that grid in the main game, there's really only 10-15 ok to good quality cars in the field.

DJRTP - 2
888 - 2
Tickford - 2 definitely, 3/4 maybe?
WAU - 2
BJR - 1, maybe 2
Kelly - 1 at a time apparently
Erebus - 2
Mr Forklift - 2

Cars 3, 4, 19, 22, 34 and 35 are all pretty pointless entries, so I wonder what those teams could do if they moved to something cheaper.

What if we had 17, 12, 88, 97, 6, 55, 2, 25, 8, 14, 7, 9, 99, 18, 20 as full fledged Supercar entries, then the rest of the field running either a detuned / cheaper spec / off the shelf style car? Either a lower spec Supercar or something different like a MARC car. 5-10 seconds off the main cars at Bathurst. That field would be made up of the other 10 cars left out from my list, maybe even additional entries from those teams if it's half the cost or so, as well as more entries from Super2 / AusGT /B12H style teams. That's 15 front running cars wowing spectators with noise and speed, all fighting for wins and then another 10-20 or so tightly competitive class cars racing hard amongst themselves and really testing the main field?

If you wanted you could even have that 2nd class be completely spec but then open up the development in the main class, if things were going healthy and teams were feeling adventurous.

Unfortunately it's all a dream I'm afraid. The format we have today was a massive hit from say, 1995 to 2005. But like a megastar rock band still touring off success from the "golden days".....let it go.

Edit: It's worth pointing out that for all the fanfare and back patting about the excitement and variety of the tyre lottery races, 26 of 31 races were still won by DJRTP/888.

As much as it pains me to say this, just go all out with the control formula they've been trying so hard not to make it obvious it is. Basically make it NASCAR with opening doors and RHD. Hell, just make the bloody things NASCARs setup for our tracks, at least the racing would be interesting. And if they want to make them "relevant to the market" stick dual cab ute bodies on the trucks.

[milo]

My 12 year old Son actually sat down with me and watched most of it. He was asking heaps of questions about motor racing in general, and definitely took an interest, and was getting pretty excited toward the end.
Was actually glad the Safety Cars came out towards the end, as I was able to show him how the Safety Cars can really change a race.

Actually reminded me of my first real love of the race, at nearly the same age, watching Alan Grice in the Chickadee Commodore in '86.
I can still remember watching that race from start to finish. ..... Something unfortunately I haven't have ben able to do as much as I'd like to.

[BeverlyHillsCop]

Awesome drive by SVG. Was watching with live timing on hand and the back and forth between him and Waters was immense. They'd trade sectors by a half a tenth each lap, then SVG would pull out a big number and stretch the gap. Must have been demoralising for Waters and car 6, as any other year and that would have been a race winning drive.

On the other hand, I wish this race (and Supercars as a whole) would be based on who is the best racer / overtaker. Shane won by being the best hot lapper, I want to know who the best racer is. Now that shouldn't be taken as a sledge on Shane, but more about the category as a whole. Besides that wet stint, how many genuine overtakes did car #97 do? Or car 6? Or any of the other leaders. Fingers crossed for Gen3 rulebook being the goods, but I can't help but think of how much I wish we had 40+ car grids again. They got rid of the backmarkers to try and raise the standards, well that worked for a while but I think we're passed it now. I miss the days of cheering for drivers just to finish or to score a miracle top-15, or seeing who can cut through traffic most effectively.

The other reason why theres only so many REC's and why the number of cars on the grid is capped is because thats the max amount of vehicles they can fit on the plane along with spares for the fly away races.

[Gin Kii]

The other reason why theres only so many REC's and why the number of cars on the grid is capped is because thats the max amount of vehicles they can fit on the plane along with spares for the fly away races.

They would not be getting the full grid onto a single airplane so adding another plane to the mix should be easily doable.

[leothedrummer]

As much as it pains me to say this, just go all out with the control formula they've been trying so hard not to make it obvious it is. Basically make it NASCAR with opening doors and RHD. Hell, just make the bloody things NASCARs setup for our tracks, at least the racing would be interesting. And if they want to make them "relevant to the market" stick dual cab ute bodies on the trucks.

I wouldn't argue with choices like that (also why does a V8SC engine cost a squillion bucks whilst NASCAR motors make more power, turn a near 9000rpm for 4 hours at a time and seemingly cost the equivalent of a meat pie?).

But I get there from a slightly different angle. Supercars make a hell of a lot of noise about being a parity formula when they actually aren't. "The cars are all identical / it's all about the driver / the rulebook gives everyone the same gear" - bullshit.

The treatment of Nissan and Mercedes was embarrassing. Nissan shutting down an entire production line for a week just so Kelly Racing can get some new cylinder heads and then we wonder why there seems to be a lack of manufacturer interest. If you were in charge of the racing budget of a prospective manufacturer, where would you park the coin?

It's a joke to hear commentators talk about the cars being identical, then in the next breath mention that x team is running a 888 customer car that is 4 development cycles old. Or that the Nissans can't match the fuel economy numbers of the other brands. Or that the Mercs can't hit the peak horsepower numbers without compromising the power delivery.

Either it's a development series or it's not. If it was a parity series then it would be "bring your best and then we'll adjust the cars to match laptimes". But it really isn't a parity series and never has been.

[BeverlyHillsCop]

They would not be getting the full grid onto a single airplane so adding another plane to the mix should be easily doable.

Gibson Freight uses 2 planes filled to the max, with teams only taking a fraction of the spares they normally bring to a race meeting... who's gonna be the one to pay for the 3rd plane which is hardly gonna be full?