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    #76
    Originally posted by MWP View Post
    You're missing the point... as are many others. What he had to do to recover really doesn't matter.
    Seb made the mistake in the first place. He fucked up and went onto the grass & cut the corner. With Hamilton so close behind, he should have dropped a position because of it.

    The actual rule they chose to penalise him for IMHO is wrong. It's the wrong use for that rule, and sets a bad precedent.
    But Seb absolutely should have lost 1st place for that mistake.
    Ah, so what you're actually saying is not that he rejoined dangerously but that he gained an advantage from his excursion. I agree with that, but it's not what he was penalised for.

    Comment


      #77
      nah certainly didn't gain an advantage from "cutting the corner'. He lost all his pace and the gap he had to 2nd place. He lost his advantage by having that out of control moment. The opposite of gaining an advantage. He probably should have dropped a position from it, but Hamilton was too dumb to get past him even when he'd lost all his speed.

      Originally posted by 36 View Post
      Penalty was there.

      Ran off track.

      Another driver had to brake to avoid contact.

      Clear cut.

      Was there anything Vettel could have done? Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter. He certainly didn't appear to attempt to not impede Hamilton

      Whether he was in control or not doesn't matter.
      Yes it does - if you go spinning back onto the track and another car has to brake to avoid you, you don't get penalised for an unsafe re-entry. This is no different - the car was still having it's moment when it came back on the track, still sliding and oppy-locking to gather it up. There wasn't anything else he really could have done. An unsafe re-entry is for when drivers decide to come back on the track with no regard for other cars.

      Hamilton on the other hand, should have slowed earlier when the incident was occurring and then could have blasted past on the inside exiting the chicane or up that straight - Vettel was never going to get a good exit... Should have been easy pickings for the best driver in the world. Instead he chose to pretend nothing was happening ahead and almost tripped over the car that was having a moment as it slid back onto the track in it's natural trajectory.

      Comment


        #78
        https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision

        The call was made based on the fact they could see once he had gathered it up that looked in the mirror and turned right.

        Still don't think I'd have penalised him - heat of the moment.
        Originally posted by brasher
        TJ is 99% African American.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by MWP View Post
          Yeah, he should have.
          Sure - give him 5 seconds like the precedent is - he would have still won the race.
          Originally posted by brasher
          TJ is 99% African American.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by hrd View Post
            nah certainly didn't gain an advantage from "cutting the corner'. He lost all his pace and the gap he had to 2nd place. He lost his advantage by having that out of control moment. The opposite of gaining an advantage. He probably should have dropped a position from it, but Hamilton was too dumb to get past him even when he'd lost all his speed.
            Not losing a place is still considered gaining an advantage, as we regularly see from the orders to drop a spot at the Nouvelle Chicane.

            Overall I think it should have been chalked up as a racing incident, and what is more I reckon that if Hamilton hadnt tried for a lunge down the outside he would have been in a prime position to take him down the straight to the T10 chicane, and sealed it on track.
            Chris
            ------
            The new nugget
            I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by TJ View Post
              https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision

              The call was made based on the fact they could see once he had gathered it up that looked in the mirror and turned right.

              Still don't think I'd have penalised him - heat of the moment.
              Thats the bit I noticed and assumed thats why he got the penalty.

              10/10 for schuiness.
              .... because every driver experiences the destructive potential of the effortless surge of power available through the smallest of body movements.

              Dr Hoon
              .

              DrNick is king!!!! No, Mark Webber is now! Long live the king!... hold on a minute mate, Ricci is in charge now

              Comment


                #82
                It has nothing to do with gaining an advantage, it's all about safely re entering the track after going off.

                Seb made the mistake, and the onus is on him to safely re enter the track. Hamilton had every right to stay on the racing line, at race speed, and not be impeded by Seb re entering the track. It was a tough call and could have gone either way in my opinion, but the stewards clearly believe that Seb could have done more to make a safer re-entry, and not impede and/or endanger Hamilton in doing so.

                I definitely believe that Seb knew exactly where Hamilton was at all times.
                2015 Skoda Octavia RS162TSI
                2004 MX5 SE Turbo
                2016 Toyota 86 GTS (No Pics)

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by TJ View Post
                  https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision

                  The call was made based on the fact they could see once he had gathered it up that looked in the mirror and turned right.
                  That makes the decision worse IMO. You can't penalise someone for an unsafe re-entry then say it's for what they feel was a defensive move made after rejoining. They're just trying to justify a bad decision.
                  Particularly when that RH steering input is a correction to wheel spin getting back on the throttle on dirty tyres. I don't see a look in the mirror till way after that steering input

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by hrd View Post
                    That makes the decision worse IMO. You can't penalise someone for an unsafe re-entry then say it's for what they feel was a defensive move made after rejoining. They're just trying to justify a bad decision.
                    Particularly when that RH steering input is a correction to wheel spin getting back on the throttle on dirty tyres. I don't see a look in the mirror till way after that steering input
                    And the article states the stewards had another camera angle to help them decide.
                    Originally posted by brasher
                    TJ is 99% African American.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803

                      It's funny how people bring up old videos but forget Max's penalty just 11 races ago.
                      Originally posted by brasher
                      TJ is 99% African American.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        you should explain to Mario Andretti, Nigel Mansel, Alex Wurz, Mark Webber, Allan McNish etc how they're all wrong.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Max/Kimi incident in Japan was nothing like it. At no time was Max's car the slightest bit out of shape. He was in full control of where the car was going at all times there after the inital outbraking took him wide. He wasn't fighting for control of the car as it came back on the track. And Kimi was full alongside before he re-entered the track - before the 2nd part of the chicane in fact. Nothing like the same.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            drivers disagreeing with the stewards......

                            whale oil beef hooked.
                            .... because every driver experiences the destructive potential of the effortless surge of power available through the smallest of body movements.

                            Dr Hoon
                            .

                            DrNick is king!!!! No, Mark Webber is now! Long live the king!... hold on a minute mate, Ricci is in charge now

                            Comment


                              #89
                              That was a farce. Vettel did all he could just to keep the thing out of the barriers. The rejoining the track rule also includes the phrase "deliberate". You need to be deliberately unsafe in the way you rejoin the track, otherwise someone could spin off across a chicane or something and be penalised for "rejoining in an unsafe manner" even though all he did was have the misfortune to lose control... that's fucking stupid of course, and so that is why the rules say it needs to be a deliberately unsafe rejoining of the track. I didnt see him mashing the throttle across the grass or turning towards the wall to block hamilton. Verstappen deliberately crowded raikkonen out when he lost it in Austin. That's why he was penalised

                              So if he didnt deliberately join in an unsafe manner, and he didnt cut and gain an advantage (clearly so). Then what did he do?

                              Maybe the stewards applied the rules to the letter in terms of talking about looking at mirrors and shit, but clearly the incident weas made to fit the letter of the rule, instead of looking at the incident and deciding whether it breached the spirit of the rule.

                              I think vettel is a flog and I am still backing him here. He was robbed by an overzealous and over bureaucratic stewards panel. They say they want to let drivers race and this and that malarkey but actions speak louder than words. More than once this season they have handed out penalties in 50/50 situations where they could have easily let it go... They haven't changed at all
                              1988 AW11 9A-GTE - project #1 | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - project #2

                              Originally posted by Walt Kowalski talking like a crazed hobo
                              The major arrests will start from 1st January 2019.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by trdee View Post
                                I think vettel is a flog and I am still backing him here. He was robbed by an overzealous and over bureaucratic stewards panel. They say they want to let drivers race and this and that malarkey but actions speak louder than words. More than once this season they have handed out penalties in 50/50 situations where they could have easily let it go... They haven't changed at all
                                IMO the stewards have gotten worse this year. Last year they let a lot of stuff slide, but this year it seems stuff that you would just call a racing incident is getting penalised.

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