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Electrical gurus, lend me your ears - Flasher Relay / LED Indicator problem

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    Electrical gurus, lend me your ears - Flasher Relay / LED Indicator problem

    Recently fitted LED Indicator / Park Lights to my newly refinished ARB bull bar and having a few issues with the Indicators in that they are very dim when they are flashing.. The Parkers light up fine and bright, it's just the indicators..



    Vehicle is 1998 Pajero NL GLS 3.5L Auto

    This is what I have done so far to try and diagnose..

    * ALL other factory vehicle indicators are working fine, not flashing faster / slower etc.
    * These LEDs are ADDITIONAL to the factory indicators & parkers
    * If I remove a factory incandescent globe from the vehicle, the others flash faster, but there is no change to the LED indicator brightness.
    * When connecting the LEDs to direct 12V - they light up perfectly.
    * When connecting the Parker LED to the Indicator circuit, it lights up perfectly.
    * When connecting the Indicator LED to the Park Light Circuit, it lights up perfectly.
    * There are 6 LEDs in the Parker arrangement
    * There are 8 LEDs in the Indicator arrangement
    * Have double checked all connections and confirmed good earth.
    * The indicators are very dim when using the Hazard Lights or the indicators, BUT - they light up much brighter when switching the Alarm on / off (spoke to alarm installer and he confirmed they are given a different signal from the alarm module.
    * If I remove the LEDs and reconnect the original Incandescent Indicators from the ARB Bar (21W globe) - they light up perfectly.

    Soooo.. It's got me stumped..
    Is it the Flasher Relay that needs upgrading ?
    If so, does anyone know of a suitable replacement for this that would handle it ?
    I don't want to go back to the ARB Amber Incandescent Indicators, I like the cleaner look of the Clear Lenses of the LED.








    #2
    What connections are on the LED units? Are there separate pairs of wires for parkers and indicators or is there a 3 wire arrangement with either common power or common ground?

    Comment


      #3
      Three 3mm wires from the LED units.
      Brown (Common Ground)
      Yellow (Indicator)
      White ( Parker)

      Factory Indicator
      Green / Red trace (Power)
      Black - (Ground)

      Factory Parker
      Green / Yellow trace (Power)
      Black (Ground)

      Cheers
      Last edited by Southo; 10-12-19, 08:41 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Do you have the OEM wiring diagram for the indicators / hazards? Do you know / can you check if the OEM indicator ground is actually ground or if it grounds via something else?
        Can you unplug the alarm, so it is not connected in any way to the hazard switch / indicators, and then try the hazards or indicators?

        Comment


          #5
          Try one of these https://www.jaycar.com.au/3-pin-led-...12vdc/p/SY4018
          Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR, MINI Cooper S
          Originally posted by nutttr
          People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by elfturbomax View Post
            Do you have the OEM wiring diagram for the indicators / hazards? Do you know / can you check if the OEM indicator ground is actually ground or if it grounds via something else?
            Can you unplug the alarm, so it is not connected in any way to the hazard switch / indicators, and then try the hazards or indicators?
            No, but I am going to be able to get my hands on one tomorrow at my Mechanic's workshop hopefully. This problem has he and his Auto Electrician dude stumped...
            That said, I have used both the wired ground wire that leads to the factory indicator and separate one for parker light - as well as a lead as well as a separate independent ground location, No change in the dullness of the LEDs

            I will chat to my Alarm dude and see if there is an easy way to do this, but he assured me that the Alarm doesn't connect through the factory flasher relay and actually has it's own relay for this purpose... - this is why he suggestes that the Alarm signal is providing a better brightness to the LEDs... I will ask though...


            Originally posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
            I did ask about these but was told that as I am not replacing the existing Incandescent globes with LEDs, but instead ADDING an extra LEDto the circuit, they will not be of use and will get overloaded as they are used when there is bugger all current draw caused by changing to all LEDs... happy to be proved wrong though...
            Last edited by Southo; 10-12-19, 08:43 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Southo View Post
              I did ask about these but was told that as I am not replacing the existing Incandescent globes with LEDs, but instead ADDING an extra LEDto the circuit, they will not be of use and will get overloaded as they are used when there is bugger all current draw caused by changing to all LEDs... happy to be proved wrong though...
              Those "LED flasher" are electronic, as opposed to the traditional thermal flasher, they don't care what load is on them, anywhere between 0.02A and 20A, they will flash at the same speed.

              I've used them on cars which have a combination of LED and halogen lamps for indicators and it just worked.

              So long as the total load of all the bulbs is less than 20A, it'll be fine. The existing flasher is marked as a max of 138W (27W x 2 + 21W x 4), which at 13V is a little over 10A so the LED flasher actually has a higher rating.

              It doesn't make sense, but just try it anyhow.
              Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR, MINI Cooper S
              Originally posted by nutttr
              People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
                Those "LED flasher" are electronic, as opposed to the traditional thermal flasher, they don't care what load is on them, anywhere between 0.02A and 20A, they will flash at the same speed.

                I've used them on cars which have a combination of LED and halogen lamps for indicators and it just worked.

                So long as the total load of all the bulbs is less than 20A, it'll be fine. The existing flasher is marked as a max of 138W (27W x 2 + 21W x 4), which at 13V is a little over 10A so the LED flasher actually has a higher rating.

                It doesn't make sense, but just try it anyhow.
                Yep, For the sake of $15, I am willing to try it...
                will head to Jaycar tomorrow and grab one..

                Comment


                  #9
                  Guess:

                  Your LED indicators don't like the voltage drop caused from being wired in series with the flasher and in parallel with incandescents.

                  BUT - they light up much brighter when switching the Alarm on / off (spoke to alarm installer and he confirmed they are given a different signal from the alarm module.
                  Jack's solution of replacing the thermal flasher with an electronic one will probably make them light up just as bright as the alarm module does.
                  Is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jack Nicholson View Post
                    Purchased and fitted - No difference...

                    Back to the drawing board....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Do they work better with the engine running?
                      Is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Dark Orange View Post
                        Do they work better with the engine running?
                        No difference

                        Comment


                          #13
                          How handy are you with a voltmeter? Do you have a scope?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Reasonably competent with a Multi-meter - No oscilloscope unfortunately.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Ok, in the absence of a diagram or standing looking at the vehicle a couple of these things might seem a bit basic, but bear with me.
                              Set the multimeter to DC volts, and if it has auto-ranging change that to a manual range that shows at least 2 digits before the decimal point.
                              Put the meter negative connection to the battery -ve post.
                              Measure the voltages on what you think is the negative side of one of the OEM indicator connections (using the meter positive wire), with ignition ON and both indicators On and Off.
                              Repeat the measurements for what you think is the positive side of the OEM indicator connection.

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