Ford AU Falcon Diagnostics - Info Needed

[Beefy Laser]

Hi All,

Bought a cheap ebay scan tool to plug into a mates AU falcon (classic 6, EEC-V ecu), and surprise surprise, no go. It doesnt even register that it's connected!

After much much digging on the net, I am led to believe that the AU uses an OBD-II compatible protocol called J1850-PWM, but a ford variation of that called SCP (Standard Corporate Protocol). Basically, it seems to be that the diagnostic port uses a different message format of the basic j1850 protocol that normal (cheap) scan tools cannot cope with. A different data frame structure.

Was hoping to extract DTCS, Live data etc from the car.

Has anyone had experience in using this protocol and if so, can provide any info, pdfs or paperwork like:

-SAE docs that used to be free on the net - j1850 standard, j2178 all parts, j1979, j2012, j2190, j1978, j2205
-Ford SCP Information (any and all)
-Ford Nodes/PIDS/IFR (In frame responses etc) etc
-AU Falcon DTC diagnostic trouble codes (are they listed in a service manual?) The standard obd ones and also the extended ones too.

It would be nice to get some data out of the ecu, but there is so little real information on the web to connect to any ecu that uses the SCP protocol. I think I have looked for days and days and downloaded so much that its not funny, but its mostly crap.

If I know the data structure I can most likely reflash a/the scan tool to cope with it and finally get somewhere. Obviously not wanting to go to the level of a ford WDS which is $$$$$.

Perhaps the developer of Niss/Sub/Mits data scan may be able to help, sorry dont know your name mate. :-)

Any help at all would be really good.

Cheers,
Beefy.

[Madhatr]

What you are actually looking for is can-bus, the E series had a specific connector too, so you needed the right plug as well as a tool that would work with the canbus protocol, its been ages since I looked at a ford so I cant even remember if the AU had the same connector. Early fords are weird because they have never been fully OBD-2 compliant, so a lot of tools have issues with communication.

What scan tool do you have?

[Beefy Laser]

Madhatr,

I would ideally like to build a ford only scan tool (Specifically for AU/older falcons), perhaps with a lcd display, and something like an AVR processor and interface circuitry. But I need to understand the j1850 pwm protocol before I can even begin to interface to it.

Mate does a lot of work on AU taxis and hence how this need came about. Currently have an ELM327 off ebay, good scan tool but doesnt work on the AU.

I am advised that CAN was introduced from the BA onwards (with the black oak ecu, and its a mangled iso protocol for the most part), and is not applicable to AU falcons, so unfortunately that wouldnt help.

I am told that the EEC-V ecu's had j1850 pwm with scp, and the EEC-IV's were different again (not sure).

Really just on an information hunt for the ford protocol so I can build something.

Cheers,
Beefy.

[RB30-POWER]

apparently it was only au2 onwards ( i personally can confirm au3 onwards) but my scan tool rep tells me au2 is obd2 compatible also?

before this they basically had a pulsed output only, very very useless in the realworld.

vn had realtime data as far back as the vn, yet until au3 (2?) you had basically a useless diagnostic system.

ford pfft!

so if it's late model au, should have plenty of realtime data available.

[Beefy Laser]

RB30,

Thanks for that. Most AU taxis he is working on are series 1 early models 99's, and these would be the ones he mostly needs the scan tool for.

See theres the thing, I cant seem to definitively find out exactly what standards apply to au1, and 2. I just wish I could find out for sure. I had heard a rumour that they put in obd-ii for the very last au3's, so cheers for that. Must have been the final revision of the EEC-V (in which the yankee versions had OBD-II all along.

I have the wiring diagram for the AU1 and the OBD-II socket shows pins 2 and 10 (J1850pwm differential bus + -) are connected, and what looks like a K-Line (for perhaps J passthru flashing) too. Will have to get the scope on there and confirm it.

Interesting that the AU doesnt have the diagnostic 'flashy flashy' lights on the ecu, and the gregorys says "A professional scan tool must be used".

Perhaps you could ask your scantool rep what standard the AU1 is...?

Cheers,
Beefy.

[RB30-POWER]

it will be the same as ef/el era, a basic pulse output only.

with the hanatech scantool, all it does it count the pulses then interpret the pulses as a code, same as watching a led light with older cars.

it's is so slow, waiting for the pulses to happen, code after code.

give me realtime data, god dammit!

i will try to find if it's some standard or not anyway.

[Beefy Laser]

RB30,

When these AU1 taxis are taken in for new keys (when all are lost) and ABS modules replaced after bingles etc, I sometimes tag along and watch. The dealer service unit (WDS, IDS etc) unit can show full running data real time no sweat. So the protocol must be there somewhere, as the data is coming out of the OBD socket in some form..

If you wouldnt mind asking the bloke if there is some sort of standard that would be cool. Personally, I have seen a handheld tool plugged into an AU in a workshop and showing real time data inc rpm, fuel trims, timing etc, so I know its definately possible.

I wouldnt mind hearing from IMPAKT too (maker of the 3 data displays on here) to see if he has any experience with fords in this area.

Cheers,
Beefy.

[Beefy Laser]

On this subject, does anyone know where an AU Factory Workshop Manual can be downloaded from? Cant seem to find one anywhere. Seems to be no shortage of commodore manuals though :-)

Might be able to shed some light on this issue with a workshop manual thats all!

cheers,
Beefy.

[Aye You]

sorry to thread mine here, but this is the only place i've found that has any descent information on OBD2 within the Ford AU falcons.

RB30-POWER, you said that you can confirm from personal experience that the AU3 was OBD2 compliant. My AU is a JAN 2002 series 3, will this mean I can use OBD2 scanner software with it? is it running normal j1850PVM protocol?

Thanks all

[Carlos the Jackal]

If it's running *any* generic OBD-II protocol it will be the PWM one. If that isn't implemented, nothing will be (apart from maybe the aforementioned SCP one).

[Stix Zadinia]

thread mine - did anyone get anywhere on this?

apparently AU1 and AU2 use an OBDII plug but with some retarded ford protocol that only applies to these cars (AU3 and BA/BF are OBD2 compliant so anything plugs into them)

anyone have any luck with a tool? or getting anything to work?

[MRMOPARMAN]

AU3 and early BA might not be OBD2.. tried that on mine and my dads utes and couldnt get them to talk (tried with 2 chrysler scanners, nissan and kia/hyundai scanners in generic mode. maybe ebay jobs work)?

[Carlos the Jackal]

BA falcons are OBD-II, but they're CAN. Older OBD-II scanners won't work with them since they're ISO-9141, VPW, PWM, etc.

[XFJET]

i got an AU3 ute and it's not ODB2 compliant, the plug is but the protocol isn't, I tested this at TerribleOne's workshop and with the odb2 setting it din't pick it up, scrolled to Ford > Falcon AU3 and connected ok and found out my ignition coil packs were shot, new one installed and happy days no more missing

[Terribleone]

I thought AU3 were OBD2?