ECU Tunes and Installs

[JZK25]

You can just start it on the crank sensor to confirm it can run and then introduce the cam sensors and VVt after.

[trdee]

spoke to the owner again. he said he is free this evening so ill be checking it out again tonight.

yes it is quad vvt. apparently it was previously running on batch fire just using the crank sensor (as you suggested jzk25). at the moment he is trying to get it to run in sequential using the cam resets etc. will see what i uncover tonight

[Jason Broadhurst]

Interesting. If it is a digital cam angle sensor, the Haltech ELITE SPI utilised for the cam signal is not a dedicated CAS IO and lacks a bit of functionality.

I found (explained in the video below) that the on/off voltages were not being met as per the aux input thresholds. Because it is not a CAS input, the thresholds are not configurable like home and ref. The inbuilt pullup resistors were either too high or low, i can't remember but I had to add an external pullup to the cam signals. Then I prompted Haltech for the firmware coded voltage thresholds for on or off and configured my pullup to suit.

It's a good video - this may be your problem.

Here is a video I made to help you.

[elfturbomax]

Was that a pullup or an external series resistor?

[trdee]

Here now. Confirmed yes it is a Hall effect on the cam sensors. We have a post here on the motec forums stating the cam sensors are supposed to run 5V. These are currently connected to 12V

The plot thickens


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[elfturbomax]

Yes, and that fixes the threshold problems above without resistors.

Edit; The 5v supply assumes that the pull-up resistor is to 5v and of a suitable value. The sensors will run with an 8v supply if the pull-up is to 8v and the resistor is not too low a value.

[jasonp1977]

with a Link ECU on a 2gr they advise to use a 1K pullup to 5V if using one of the trigger inputs, or if using a digital input they advise to use a 2.2K pullup to 5V

[Jason Broadhurst]

with a Link ECU on a 2gr they advise to use a 1K pullup to 5V if using one of the trigger inputs, or if using a digital input they advise to use a 2.2K pullup to 5V

Yeah but that is in to a CAS channel with configurable threshold voltages. You could use any pullup.

You will need a very specific pullup value to satisfy the ECU's fixed voltage thresholds in this case - and the pullup voltage too.

[trdee]

So we switched the voltage over to 5V. Car still wouldn't start and I was getting "no home signal" on the diagnostics tab. Went into the triggering window and found this



Minimum rpm for the home signal to work was 8200rpm. Someone did themselves a bamboozlin...

There were also options in there for inbuilt pull-ups, with the one selected using a 2200 pull-up to 5V. So hopefully after dropping the minimum rpm to 150 or so it should just fire up? Fingers crossed


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[10sec rx7]

you dont need to fuck around with the voltage on the home... it just works, put it back to 12v and set minimium rpm to 1000 and away you go..

you only need to play with the voltage on the SPI

[Jason Broadhurst]

TRDEE - the home and ref are purpose built CAS inputs. They have the ability to set voltage thresholds and pullups to suit a variety of sensors and signals.

The SPI is a digital input designed to be used for clutch switches, push to pass, high/low boost and other dumb on or off signals. Therefor it is far less configurable, as it expects a really clear easily defined signal. The SPI is used for cam angle sensors when you have more than 1 cam angle sensor (V configurations or engines with closed loop VVT).

I think you need to scope the CAS (all of them) to determine the voltages recieved at the ECU so you can configure the home and ref. then you need to scope and design a pullup circuit to suit the hard coded firmware voltage thresholds for the SPI to trigger correctly.

You may struggle without a scope in this instance - as per my video it is very difficult to work out what is going on. perhaps a min/max multimeter could work.

[trdee]

you dont need to fuck around with the voltage on the home... it just works, put it back to 12v and set minimium rpm to 1000 and away you go..

you only need to play with the voltage on the SPI

surely 1000rpm is too high? the cranking rpm on this was mid-200s. also if it works fine with 12v, why do cunts keep saying it wont work unless the sensor is fed 5v? different ecus maybe?

TRDEE - the home and ref are purpose built CAS inputs. They have the ability to set voltage thresholds and pullups to suit a variety of sensors and signals.

The SPI is a digital input designed to be used for clutch switches, push to pass, high/low boost and other dumb on or off signals. Therefor it is far less configurable, as it expects a really clear easily defined signal. The SPI is used for cam angle sensors when you have more than 1 cam angle sensor (V configurations or engines with closed loop VVT).

I think you need to scope the CAS (all of them) to determine the voltages recieved at the ECU so you can configure the home and ref. then you need to scope and design a pullup circuit to suit the hard coded firmware voltage thresholds for the SPI to trigger correctly.

You may struggle without a scope in this instance - as per my video it is very difficult to work out what is going on. perhaps a min/max multimeter could work.

This sounds contradictory to what dale just said.. or are you talking about something else? What do I need to do about SPIs? I am just trying to get the cam reset working so the engine will fire. The cam reset should just be wired into the "cam trigger" input on the haltech, no? What do SPIs have to do with that? Are you saying that on this engine, there shouldnt be anything connected to the cam trigger input and that the cam sensors should all be hooked up to SPIs? If that is the case, then I dont think this engine has been configured that way at all

[10sec rx7]

Your not understanding what the QuickStart does. All it does it use the crank trigger until it starts and rpm exceeds that number, it will start in semi seq and wastespark. If you set it to 7000 it will run waste until it reaches 7000. If the car won't start with it set high then you have a crank trigger issue and no amount of fucking with cam sensors will fix your problem,

[trdee]

Your not understanding what the QuickStart does. All it does it use the crank trigger until it starts and rpm exceeds that number, it will start in semi seq and wastespark. If you set it to 7000 it will run waste until it reaches 7000. If the car won't start with it set high then you have a crank trigger issue and no amount of fucking with cam sensors will fix your problem,

Right. Yeah ok that is different to what I thought in my head. I thought it was being used as a minimum crank speed setting or something of the sort

Ok so what youre sayins is the engine should still be trying to start in batch fire mode at the moment even if the cam reset wasnt working? In which case yes, that would indicate the engine must have a crank trigger issue atm, or wrongly set timing or something else.

I really need to spend a proper day on this engine and ecu and go through everything methodically. At the moment its just been an hour here or there

[10sec rx7]

Yes the engine should run perfectly with it set to 7000rpm