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    Old adaptronic 420d select questions.

    Heya kids

    So I have a little 420d running my abortion 3sge.

    Its running a 3sge blacktop tune, but I only have single vvti. Both with 100mm trumpets and quads, similar enough exhaust.

    It runs well enough for the most part, but there are 2 hiccups beyond my pay grade.

    (Yes im gonna get a proper dyno tidy up, but I just can't wait the 6 months to save before trying to figure this out lol)

    First, I have an ign fail at light light load around the 3g mark. I think this is right around where vvti starts to play, but im too stupid to figure out what's going on with that... I can drive around it, except for highway speeds..... which sits right in the guts and she keeps cutting out.

    Secondly, my more frustrating one currently, is big hesitation on sharp throttle off, like changing gear when getting into it. Im assuming over fuelling on the throttle snap and flooding with fuel ? As best I can tell, its to do with the transient throttle settings, and predicting fuel needs .... but I dont know enough to change anything for the positive .... my map sensor is internal also, and is quite far from the ecu (prob 1.5m in hose length ? ) so im guessing the map signal is still reading full throttle for a while (in ecu numbers)

    Any help or advice heartily welcome fellas

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

    RIP Carly - a smile to light the world.
    06/07/2011

    http://www.performanceforums.com/for...#post842594902 - making little toys for the big boys

    #2
    Are the injectors far from the ports? I know you need to feed them a heap more accel enrichment on IDA style stuff on rotaries. Internal map shouldn't be a problem if the throttle transients are right. If the throttles are really close to the ports you might have to make the neg transient more aggressive. Have you logged wideband on the transient?

    Not a triggering error between 720 reset on cam and crank angle due to phase shift or cam crossinga crank tooth? I'm not sure if those are cam speed only or dual sensors.

    The 400 series were pretty handy, could stack logic functions, MAPx TPS tune. Not bad for back then at the price point.
    Last edited by Slides; 10-11-21, 07:41 PM.

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      #3
      The fuel inj system is the original factory one, so it shouldn't be a hiccup.

      Throttles are directly infront of the injection manifold, and then 100mm trumpets.

      My wideband is being a silly cunt so I cant get reasonable readings of value yet.

      I bought the ecu a few years back due to the common use within the Toyota community and the huge fount if information in the forums, but with the subsequent sale to haltech, the forums were deleted and support is pretty thin on the forums for an older ecu now.

      The cam stuff is all above my head for the moment, its vvti, so not a fixed switch like the early 4age stuff.....

      Cheers for the tips mate

      Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

      RIP Carly - a smile to light the world.
      06/07/2011

      http://www.performanceforums.com/for...#post842594902 - making little toys for the big boys

      Comment


        #4
        I'd say plenty of logged runs with tweaks to throttle enrichment with decent wideband readings, being mindful of the reading delay on the wideband should get you there. You may find it beneficial going to MAPxTPS if that doesn't get you all the way.

        Comment


          #5
          The VVTI is easy enough, and all of this sounds like tuning.

          As an easy and quick test to see if it's fuel related - add a 20-40% master fuel trim and see if each issue persist.

          We can remote tune it too if you like, some arvo next week.
          Jason Broadhurst

          Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

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            #6
            Map sensor length shouldnt be an issue but if you are running ITBs then you might need to switch your throttle enrichment to the TPS-based throttle pump method instead of predicted map. Predicted map may not have enough resolution to be usable.

            The 3k ignition hiccup - what is it that makes you sure it's ignition based?

            Have you taken any logs off the ecu yet?
            1988 AW11 9A-GTE - Turbo Missile | 2004 Elise K20A - N/A Screamer | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - 80s Cruiser

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by trdee View Post
              Map sensor length shouldnt be an issue but if you are running ITBs then you might need to switch your throttle enrichment to the TPS-based throttle pump method instead of predicted map. Predicted map may not have enough resolution to be usable.

              The 3k ignition hiccup - what is it that makes you sure it's ignition based?

              Have you taken any logs off the ecu yet?
              I dont seem to have any problem with fuel on the way up with throttle, the issue seems to be the fueling continuing after the throttle is closed.... if I give it a boot full through decent revs, when I go to shift, it will bang and pop and fark like crazy, and won't play nice after picking a gear for a while.

              I've upped the dead throttle point to 3%, and that seems to have helped a bit.

              As to ign at 3k... when its carrying on, I can pump the throttle and will get pops and bangs in time with the throttle, so im guessing its still fuelling, just not sparking.

              I've tried some logs, but with a dodgy afr it doesn't seem to be very insightful... that might just be me being to dumb as fuck to understand lol

              Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

              RIP Carly - a smile to light the world.
              06/07/2011

              http://www.performanceforums.com/for...#post842594902 - making little toys for the big boys

              Comment


                #8
                Try the +40% master fuel trim and see how it behaves. It'll be the VE getting really good and the tune being miles out.
                Jason Broadhurst

                Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jason Broadhurst View Post
                  Try the +40% master fuel trim and see how it behaves. It'll be the VE getting really good and the tune being miles out.
                  Ill give it a go today. What does that actually achieve but ?? Not arguing lol, just confused am I gonna have to scrub the spark plugs again ? ;p

                  Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

                  RIP Carly - a smile to light the world.
                  06/07/2011

                  http://www.performanceforums.com/for...#post842594902 - making little toys for the big boys

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It proves quickly that it's just a tune issue, not coils or other setup issues.
                    Jason Broadhurst

                    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      10 4 boss

                      For those playing along at home, I did the 40 percent thing yesterday

                      The big drop out at 3 has improved to a mild stutter at 3. So looks like Jason's party trick has helped.

                      Ill have a look at the tune at 3ish and see if I can spike the fuel map to get a similar result without the rest of the tune feeling blergh



                      Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

                      RIP Carly - a smile to light the world.
                      06/07/2011

                      http://www.performanceforums.com/for...#post842594902 - making little toys for the big boys

                      Comment


                        #12
                        it's gonna be your fuel tuning, both in the main table and in transient throttle. welcome to tuning ITB engines pops and bangs on transient throttle (ie "giving it a boot full") is 100% fueling related.

                        dont rely on auto tune (if you are) except for broad brush changes, the auto tune doesnt play nice with ITBs especially at low throttle openings. You can have some pretty significant peaks and troughs from one cell to the next to get the fueling right and autotune doesnt do that well.

                        log, adjust. log, adjust. log, adjust. keep your AFR gauge somewhere in your peripheral vision when driving also
                        Last edited by trdee; 25-11-21, 12:10 PM.
                        1988 AW11 9A-GTE - Turbo Missile | 2004 Elise K20A - N/A Screamer | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - 80s Cruiser

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                          #13
                          He loaded a "tune" and it's in ms injection duration haha.

                          Should be some easy wins once I connect up and give it a look.
                          Jason Broadhurst

                          Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Poor Jason dealing with my tiny brain lol...

                            But the help is truly appreciated lads

                            Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

                            RIP Carly - a smile to light the world.
                            06/07/2011

                            http://www.performanceforums.com/for...#post842594902 - making little toys for the big boys

                            Comment


                              #15
                              you'll get there
                              1988 AW11 9A-GTE - Turbo Missile | 2004 Elise K20A - N/A Screamer | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - 80s Cruiser

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