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    #46
    Originally posted by Xnke View Post
    Nah, we have an AV area but I can't put kids on video or have them involved in video without a release. So far no one will even fill out and return the "it's ok if my kid uses power tools at school" sheet so fat chance of that.

    And my kids just disappointed the shit out of me today. We spent 4 days last week going over circles, radii, and diameters. We were rockstar'ing it up, calculating sagitta length, arc segments, etc, and today we can't even remember that the diameter is 2 * radius.
    What grade are they again?

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      #47
      12th grade. This is their final year of school, they're 18 year olds.

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        #48
        So fucks given = 0

        | 1963 RK43 Toyota Lite-Stout (Stanley) | 2002 EC5W Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4 Type-S (Larry) |

        Originally posted by Old Major
        Perhaps she feels inadequate when you cum in other guys?

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          #49
          Even behind the camera work they cant do? Kinda sounds like more hassle and red tape than it is worth.

          When I was that only bothered with 2 subjects. IT and Automotive. Aced both, the rest just did enough to get by. Use IT to fund my cars. worked out a treat for me!

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            #50
            Yeah, the kids are keen but I've up and told them after the abysmal milling machine practical test friday, that if we can't do the math, we can't even attempt this. We're gonna work harder on math this coming week and get some more practical applications (like how to use the edge-finder, which is a direct application of radius and diameter) and working out bolt circles to build fidget spinners.

            Once we can actually use circles and radii to measure with, then we can continue forward. we can't even start to contemplate things like cam timing until the unit circle rolls back around, and trigonometry is a lost cause for at least another few weeks. (Mainly because I'm a shit math teacher, but I wasn't hired to teach math...)

            It sucks because I have four guys who are gonna be so bored in the classroom, they're on top of things and I do my best to keep them going forward but the rest of the class is dragging behind.

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              #51
              Xnke, sounds like the kids are being kids. Fuck I had trouble with velcro until I was 23 and maths I battled with

              Time to talk to other teachers and try to figure a way to get them to use whats taught, so it sinks into a everyday life and is remebered

              Good luck buddy, for them, you and the other teachers
              "Keep lowering your standards until you achieve a goal" - Mike Finnegan

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                #52
                Originally posted by Xnke View Post
                Yeah, the kids are keen but I've up and told them after the abysmal milling machine practical test friday, that if we can't do the math, we can't even attempt this. We're gonna work harder on math this coming week and get some more practical applications (like how to use the edge-finder, which is a direct application of radius and diameter) and working out bolt circles to build fidget spinners.

                Once we can actually use circles and radii to measure with, then we can continue forward. we can't even start to contemplate things like cam timing until the unit circle rolls back around, and trigonometry is a lost cause for at least another few weeks. (Mainly because I'm a shit math teacher, but I wasn't hired to teach math...)

                It sucks because I have four guys who are gonna be so bored in the classroom, they're on top of things and I do my best to keep them going forward but the rest of the class is dragging behind.
                Is maths part of the (external) assessment criteria? Eighteen year olds don't sign up to a metal working class to do maths, and there are plenty of ways to work metal without it.
                Originally posted by Marlin
                Chickens will slip under water in the cover of darkness like a seal team and FUCK YOU UP.

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by Faux Forg View Post

                  Is maths part of the (external) assessment criteria? Eighteen year olds don't sign up to a metal working class to do maths, and there are plenty of ways to work metal without it.
                  It's part of metalwork. If you can't measure the diameter of the hole you just drilled, or figure out how far from the edge of your steel plate to drill said hole, that's gonna be a big problem.

                  These kids can't add or subtract fractions, they don't know ones.tenths-hundredths-thousandths places of a decimal number, metric is a completely foreign concept, etc. Hard to select a drill size to drill a hole, then ream the hole, if you can't subtract 10% from the reamer size to get a proper drill diameter.

                  Part of the state required industry certification exam, that all students have to take and I am required to have at least a few pass every year, is being able to read a blueprint and machine a part within the tolerance spec'ed. If you don't know that 1.250" +/- 0.002" means it needs to measure between 1.248 and 1.252", then you are not going to pass. Just getting us to this level of competence is prooving a lot more difficult than I had anticipated. We're about 30% there so far.

                  At this point, I've been given the OK to just get them to the end of the year with all appendages and eyeballs, and we will enforce the prerequisite class requirements next year, as none of these students have passed a Geometry class, and only half of them earned a passing grade in Algebra 1. We don't need advanced math for these classes, but the ability to add and subtract 3 digit decimal numbers is pretty important.

                  Tomorrow they take the drill press safety test. We watched video of a guy getting wadded up by a drill that caught in a hole and whipped a steel bar around today, as a reminder to always use the drill press vise if they want to not be in a coma or worse. Machine tools take no prisoners, that's something I have to stress every day to these kids.

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                    #54
                    Oh. Seems that I underestimated what you meant by can't do maths. Can't do basic arithmetic at 18 years old is quite the problem.
                    Originally posted by Marlin
                    Chickens will slip under water in the cover of darkness like a seal team and FUCK YOU UP.

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                      #55
                      Originally posted by Faux Forg View Post
                      Oh. Seems that I underestimated what you meant by can't do maths. Can't do basic arithmetic at 18 years old is quite the problem.

                      According to my principal, about the time I graduated high school the school board instituted a "Zero Tolerance for Zeros" policy meaning that the teachers could not give a "zero" score for a grade. Essentially, teachers could not assign a grade for work that the student chose not to do, so if you want a 100% score in the class, show up and do nothing at all, don't take tests, don't do homework, and they can not give you a zero score-so by default you get an A.

                      Now that they're realizing that students just aren't going to do the work, and we've gotten ourselves a graduating class of first graders, they've reversed that decision and so it'll be another 12 years before we're back to having students who are required to at least turn in tests and assignments, instead of sleep through a class for an easy A.

                      It's a long holiday weekend here, so they've gotten a 3-page take home packet on how to read the micrometer and dial caliper again. They got it yesterday, and it's due tuesday. that's plenty of time to get 64 questions answered, when the instructions are on the first two pages with examples and explanations.

                      If I had metric tools to make the packets up with I'd post a few here for the PF crew, but so far I haven't managed to obtain a metric dial caliper and metric micrometers. I have one in my watchlist on ebay though, so someday soon.

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                        #56
                        When it comes to the freedom units I have just enough of an idea to go to google. I may have learnt it at some point in life, but it's not mid 1970s Australia anymore. It was long dead before I got to school. If I used it more than once a year I'd probably have a need for it. I usually work on metric cars anyway.

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by Xnke View Post


                          According to my principal, about the time I graduated high school the school board instituted a "Zero Tolerance for Zeros" policy meaning that the teachers could not give a "zero" score for a grade. Essentially, teachers could not assign a grade for work that the student chose not to do, so if you want a 100% score in the class, show up and do nothing at all, don't take tests, don't do homework, and they can not give you a zero score-so by default you get an A.

                          Now that they're realizing that students just aren't going to do the work, and we've gotten ourselves a graduating class of first graders, they've reversed that decision and so it'll be another 12 years before we're back to having students who are required to at least turn in tests and assignments, instead of sleep through a class for an easy A.

                          It's a long holiday weekend here, so they've gotten a 3-page take home packet on how to read the micrometer and dial caliper again. They got it yesterday, and it's due tuesday. that's plenty of time to get 64 questions answered, when the instructions are on the first two pages with examples and explanations.

                          If I had metric tools to make the packets up with I'd post a few here for the PF crew, but so far I haven't managed to obtain a metric dial caliper and metric micrometers. I have one in my watchlist on ebay though, so someday soon.
                          Go ahead, I'll have a crack at furlongs.

                          I get the benefit of giving kids a few marks for writing their name on a page, maybe they can get a D (I just learned there isn't an E grade) for showing up most of the time and not shooting anyone.

                          I wonder if you need to start a bit simpler, maybe the basics of GD&T (which I haven't found a good guide/video for yet) or basic measurement.

                          I think the first time I did metalwork in school was year 9 or 10 and while there were some drawings involved it was all pretty much by eye. I think your kids should know what a radius and diameter is you might be expecting a bit too much from them.

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                            #58
                            here's the Micrometer packet they got Thursday.

                            https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r8I...ew?usp=sharing

                            Metric tools are a little different and if I can get some I'll definitely be making the same packet for those tools as well, as I'm supposed to be teaching dual measurement.

                            Back to the LSV4, the camshaft blanks showed up today, 2.25" diameter bars of A2 tool steel. I'll make 12 cam blanks, and probably one or maybe two crankshafts. I have been told I'm getting a broken LS7 block and 4 titanium rods, but turns out the rods are from an LF4 V6, and may not work in an LS without a lot of extra work. The LS7 block is also one of those "might not be fixable" jobs, depending on where the sleeve and cylinder are broken at. We'll see if and when they show up.

                            gonna try to film and edit a bit for Youtube tonight and get it up there this week. The plan is to film enough for a few 10 minute videos, edit them to be watchable, and get the prep work and some dumb jokes in there for no one to laugh at.

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                              #59
                              I kinda like the idea of making it an inline 4+T.
                              Would solve a lot of the crank dilemna's also?
                              I climbed Mt Druitt

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                                #60
                                Been working on this some, between bitching about students.

                                First job was to create a model of the LS2 block, then cut it the way I intend to do to build the block. After making the cuts, I can get a look at where the weld joints will be and how I'll have to prep them.





                                After that, I spent some time goofing around with oil pans, heads, valley pan, stuff like that. Some of it I can use, but the CTS-V oil pan is probably the closest, and is what I chopped and pieced together here.



                                So, time to get to it, I guess. Remember, I'm building #1, and my students are going to eventually (hopefully) be able to create the drawings and set up the machines to be able to build their own version. They get to use leftovers from the automotive department now, so they have a set of LS3 rectangle port heads and a 6.2L block.

                                I have this set of 862 truck heads, these are the small chamber, small valve, small intake port casting. They're not bad, but the intake valve is too small for the port, and the throat area is 95ish percent of the intake valve. I'd like to get that number down to about 87-88 percent, so the valve has to get bigger. No big deal, after welding the valve seats and guides will have to be removed and replaced for long-term durability anyway. Welding will distort the valve seat area, so there is no guarantee that the inserts won't fall out later. Only way to be sure is cut them out after welding, stress relieve the head, and re-cut the seat area for new inserts, new valve job, and new valves.

                                Time to get choppin'.



                                After sawing the first head down I took a few measurements, consulted the solid model, and milled the cut faces down to be exactly the correct length to butt together. Obviously it'll fit together and work, but the reason for doing this isn't to just butt weld it and go, but instead to provide a foundation to start with.



                                After getting to this stage, I have to machine some jigs and fixtures to hold the parts for welding, and the heads have to have the weld preps machined into them. The deck surface gets V-notched almost 15mm deep, and the water jacket gets a V-groove prep, both the inside and outside middle head bolt hole have to be completely V-grooved away, and the M10x1.5 hole above and between the exhaust ports has to be grooved out so the water jacket can be fully sealed, and the hole re-drilled and tapped.

                                In the mean time, here's the sections bolted up on the 6.0L block with a broken cylinder wall.

                                Last edited by Xnke; 05-09-21, 03:58 PM.

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