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    #16
    The tank is 10L. 2.7 gallons.

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      #17
      I ran wmi years ago on my supra, was able to run 30psi on 98 fuel.
      However it was a backyard tune of the system because whenever i asked a tuner they didnt want to know about it. So i myself started logging and just adding a bit of timing and adjusting fuel mixtures.

      I now run e85 but removed wmi, not sure if legal in the wtac/supersprint/hillclimbs races?

      Whats the best and most reliable wmi kit out there now?
      93 tt supra,black 6 speed
      --------------------------------
      SINGLE

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        #18
        https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

        This page has a lot of good info.

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          #19
          Originally posted by MAZMAN View Post
          I ran wmi years ago on my supra, was able to run 30psi on 98 fuel.
          However it was a backyard tune of the system because whenever i asked a tuner they didnt want to know about it. So i myself started logging and just adding a bit of timing and adjusting fuel mixtures.

          I now run e85 but removed wmi, not sure if legal in the wtac/supersprint/hillclimbs races?

          Whats the best and most reliable wmi kit out there now?
          Aquamist, without a doubt, is the best, most reliable system on the market.

          http://www.aquamist.co.uk

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            #20
            At the other end of the spectrum I setup a WMI install on my old D22 Navara with the grenade ZD30 after I sold it to the old man and made 40hp/120nm gain with a 50/50 mix on a 600cc nozzle boost referenced. Pretty much bang on a 50% gain.

            Would definitely bang again, thanks for the reminder to do this with a few of my other cars.
            Originally posted by Dimi
            80mm of penetration isn't bad, i wish i had that much.
            Originally posted by schnitzelburger
            My entire working career pretty much consists of suckin dick and takin names.

            Sometimes im too busy to take names.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Sketchy View Post
              At the other end of the spectrum I setup a WMI install on my old D22 Navara with the grenade ZD30 after I sold it to the old man and made 40hp/120nm gain with a 50/50 mix on a 600cc nozzle boost referenced. Pretty much bang on a 50% gain.

              Would definitely bang again, thanks for the reminder to do this with a few of my other cars.
              It didnt work out well on the 300zx
              you cant spell advertisements without semen between the tits

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                #22
                So, did some testing last night and here are some results for those interested.

                Car: Exige S
                Donk: 2ZZGE standard Toyota/Yamaha spec. 11.5 compression ratio, high lift cam (same as VTEC) comes in at 5400 rpm, revs to 8500 rpm.
                Boost maker: Starndard issue MP62 supercharger with standard issue A/A intercooler. Smaller pulley fitted for more boost. Standard boost for these is 150 kPa absolute (0.5 bar gauge or 7.5 psi gauge). It now has a bit more boost, more on that later...

                Inlet - MAF deleted, straight 3" inlet pipe into throttle body with water injection nozzle after pod airfilter, about 300 mm before throttle body (which of course is on inlet site to supercharger).

                Exhaust - standard headers/cat but Varex muffler, set to straight through for all testing.


                Simple Snow Performance Water/Meth injection. I'm injecting 50/50 (by volume) mix of meth/distilled water. I have water injection set to come on at 4000 rpm and above 133 kPa, controlled by ECU signal to WMI pump. Nozzle used is a #3 nozzle, nominally 175 cc/min, but I tested several times and it flows 300 cc/min. Which is about 22% by mass of the fuel injected at full power.

                When WMI is triggered, the ECU applies a 12% leaner fuel trim. Also applieds a timing change, which is tested at various levels below.


                Test condtions:

                Done at night on a level road, 12 deg ambient, clear night so not too humid or much moisture in the air. All air ducting to intercooler blocked off, so as to try get a bit of heat soak on a cold night to better represent a warmer ambient temperature, or a lap or three on track.


                Acceleration measured using logging of ecu front wheel speed sensors (normal used for ABS control). So accurate enough. 3 acceleration runs performed for each test and the 3 results averaged.


                Tested in 3rd gear, full throttle from a bit below 4000 rpm through to around 8300 rpm. 4000 RPM is below where I'd normally use full throttle, but wanted to see if it bogged down when WMI came on. Would normally operate in the 5000 - 8500 rpm range on track, donk needs to rev! Even with supercharger and instant boost it's a bit pointless down low.

                OK so 70 - 140 kmh (4000 - 8100 rpm) averaged run times are as follows:

                No WMI, timing left as is (24 deg timing at 6000 rpm and up): 5.1 s
                WMI on, timing left as is: 5.21 s
                WMI on, 2deg extra timing: 5.05 s
                WMI on, 3 deg extra timing: 4.98 s
                WMI on, 4 deg extra timing: 4.92 s
                WMI on, 5 deg extra timing: 4.86 s

                Post intercooler temperatures were in the low - mid 40 deg range for the tests. Remember the intercooler is just acting as a heat sink as no airflow over it.

                So, as expected, it's a little slower with WMI on and no change to timing. Burns a bit slower, water displaces air, make your excuses! But with extra timing it went better. I will leave it set to 4 deg extra timing as the knock sensor level was getting more elevated at 5 deg and the improvement in power seems to be diminishing.

                Comparing 110 - 140 kmh accel times between 4 and 5 deg advanced showed no difference, so top end power not really improving with extra timing.


                One interesting thing is that the boost level is affected by WMI, as per internet rumours. Without WMI it would get up to around 170 kPa (10 psi). But with WMI on it would get around 180 kPa (11.5 psi). So the effect of injecting WM into the inefficient MP62 supercharger definitely helps it. Note that this supercharger is spinning around 15000 RPM at max engine speed, has an adiabatic efficiency of around 50% and flows around 500 cfm at that speed and boost. Which means that of the 25 kW required to drive it, about 50 % of that power turns into heat in the inlet air! Now you know why I fitted WMI!

                Data logged from a standard setup (like mine) GT production sports Exige S back in 2009, running around 7.5 - 8 psi at Bathurst shows 90 deg plus inlet air temperatures post intercooler, on a 28 deg ambient day.

                I don't have data logged under track condtions just yet, except I did put a tell tale temperature strip on the inlet tank of the intercooler before my first rallysprint. On a 19 deg clear day and over 8 rallysprint runs of 2 min 50 sec duration each, it never got above 75 deg with the WMI running all day. So that's a win I think, even if not incredibly scientific logging... So it would hopefully be 40 - 50 post intercooler, but didn't have computer logging in car that day, co-driver said they were busy enough thanks.

                My main aim of installing WMI was not to make heaps more power, but to keep power level consistent without too much drop off after a few laps on track, and also to help the fairly weak standard pistons live with boost, remembering that the 2ZZGE was not designed for boost. Let's see how long it lasts!


                That's me done for now!

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                  #23
                  So, got some hot weather circuit racing testing in with water injection fitted and results are below. Water/Meth mixed as 2/3 water and 1/3 Methanol by volume.

                  Day was hot and dry, starting and 28 dec C and getting up to 33 dec C. Location was Babagallo Raceway, Wanneroo. All tests were based on a 3 hard lap distance, to replicate 3 lap supersprints. I let it cool for a couple of laps in a couple of the sessions and then did another 3 laps hard. I don't do endurance racing, so no point in keeping on it for more than 3 laps at a time for my purposes at least.

                  Inlet temperatures were measured by inserting thermocouples under rubber hose joining intercooler to piping, both pre and post intercooler. This avoids placing the thermocouple into the airflow stream and recording 'web bulb' temperatures, where the probe gets wet and gives cooler than actual temperature results. I think a lot of the test results published for WMI show web bulb temperatures, making it seem like a magic cooling effect, whereas it is not. Intercooler is standard, but with large scoop and 90 mm hose fitted to direct air from RHS engine side intake, plus some work to open up restrictions in the standard roof intake ducting.

                  Have a look a logging test results in attached video and then you can also look at some in car footage so you can get your head around what 3 laps of Barbagallo raceway looks like. Video shows me chasing a supercharged Audi R8 V10 when it was round 32 deg and I was trying the 500 ml/min injection rate. That Audi had some stonk and no way would I be able to stay with it on the straights, as you'd expect.

                  Basically, results show that WMI is very effective in reducing and stabilising pre intercooler tempeatures on a hot dry day, with 500 ml/min injection rate resulting in pre intercooler temperature rise of only about 40 deg C above ambient, compared to 75 dec C with no WMI. However it was starting to bog down momentarily on some gearchanges with 500 ml/min injection rate, so I think that's about the limit that can be injected. 300 ml/min is sufficient for most occasions, though 500 provides some benefit on really hot dry days, not that I plan on competing too often on days like that!

                  The other thing to note is how well the standard intercooler works, under some pretty severe test conditions. Even with no WMI and 28 deg ambient, the inlet temperatures were only in the low 60 deg range after 3 laps. Adding 300 ml/min and then 500 ml/min only decreased post intercooler temperatures into the mid 50 dec C range. Put another way, maximum post intercooler temperatures in terms of rise above ambient temperature were 34, 27 and 22 Dec C for no WMI, 300 ml/min and 500 ml/min WMI injection rates respectively.

                  Speeds achieved were around 205 kph in 5th down the main straight hill, and 180 kph in 4th down the other two straights. Lap times were rubbish as rear tyres were completely shot! But testing was the game, not lap times, so no matter. And it's very easy and fun to slide around as it happens. Didn't miss not having LSD at all on the flowing 3rd and 4th gear corners of this track either.

                  https://youtu.be/pIjThRHzNrQ

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai-vP0WMDng

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                    #24
                    Good work man, that's very interesting.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by MAZMAN View Post
                      I ran wmi years ago on my supra, was able to run 30psi on 98 fuel.
                      However it was a backyard tune of the system because whenever i asked a tuner they didnt want to know about it. So i myself started logging and just adding a bit of timing and adjusting fuel mixtures.
                      Exactly the situation I found and probably the biggest question that needs to be answered re: W/M injection systems - who is going to tune it?

                      Originally posted by Jim
                      I feel that rules are important as without rules there is no cheating and cheating is a vital part of drag racing.
                      Originally posted by elfturbomax
                      What has happened to PF? It seems to be diesel love now days. Maybe the name should be changed to Particulate Forums.
                      1UZ+1NZ...

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                        #26
                        Pee Kay (you can probably contact him on facebook, bumpstart on rotary forums) is an advocate, does a fair bit of street tuning (with knock listening, then passing over to shop with a dyno) and has a good relationship with one of the tuning shops over there. Might be able to help or point you in the right direction. I think Rotormotion have done WI cars for a while?

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by perthdrivers.txt View Post
                          Exactly the situation I found and probably the biggest question that needs to be answered re: W/M injection systems - who is going to tune it?
                          Do it yourself, on track, road or dry hire a dyno. That's what I do. Nothing weird about tuning it. I used the nitrous feature on my ECU. But instead of richening/regarding (as you would when nitrous activates) I leaned/advanced. Simple and good enough.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by perthdrivers.txt View Post
                            Exactly the situation I found and probably the biggest question that needs to be answered re: W/M injection systems - who is going to tune it?
                            Do it yourself, on track, road or dry hire a dyno. That's what I do. Nothing weird about tuning it. I used the nitrous feature on my ECU. But instead of richening/regarding (as you would when nitrous activates) I leaned/advanced. Simple and good enough.

                            Or you can go full mapped wmi, just like you can for nitrous.

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                              #29
                              The combustion stability offered by running water at 15% + of fuel mass means unless you run outrageous ignition advance you should be pretty safe, it is usually just making sure you have enough spark to make it work that is the problem. It has been the go to for high powered rx7s for ~15 years before e85/flex sensors became readily available.

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                                #30
                                used water meth for drag challenge this year...A+++ would bang again!!

                                intake temps before burnout were 38+
                                Intake temps staging 35+
                                Intake temps at 60ft 24
                                Intake temps at top of 1/4 30

                                Really kept the intake temps stable and allows a little bit of timing and stability. Ran over 10 drags and plenty of street hits along the 3500kms and dint use more then 400ml

                                using 50/50 boost juice mix with a AEM mid range nozzle post intercooler, hobbs switch, wm filter and solenoid

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