Building tube chassis - some input needed

[Nero]

The best book re spaceframes is still the costin and phipps book...old but no-one has done better.
Why MIG?....most space frame I have seen recently are nickle/bronze welded via gas....stronger than the original mild steel and easier to master than mig. Harder to repair with mig.
The bane of most engineers lives with ICV's is the MIG welds, esp when done with a gasless mig.

[Datto-Zed]

Ahh k. I'd assumed MIG would be the go.... I still have plenty to learn about welding and such (which is half the point of this project). So welded via gas....as in oxy?

I gather even attempting it with a stick welder woudl be a no no?

[hamish]

Yes, done with oxy acetelene, similar to brazing but NOT the same as brazing.

Good little article here http://7faq.com/owbase/ow.asp?NotesOnWelding

[Nero]

Look, MIG is great, I love it, but it is not easy to do really well and very easy to do an ordinary job. The problem with MIG is that the joint is often fine, but either side of the joint may be weakened. This may first be seen by a crack....which if you are foolish you just mig up...and then get another crack on the other side of the weld. A person I know who has welding tickets and does cages for money and is CAMS certified had a car do a severe roll. Driver was not hurt, but only the TIG welded joints stood up well and the MIG joints showed some signs of distress/cracking.
Having said that it does depend on type of joint, skill, materials/steel that you wish to join. There is a place for MIG, no question, but there are alternatives and after all you are not building a comp car or worried about weight.
I am goint to talk to a man soon re his cars, all bronze welded and all 30years old, some have been bent but he has never had a joint failure/crack. Any method done badly is dangerous

[Nero]

Good link there Hamish....mind you I would say that as it agrees with me!

[hamish]

It surprised me when I stumbled upon it, hadn't even realised that there was even a difference between brazing & bronze welding let alone it probably being superior to MIG.

Looks like a good alternative to TIG in many applications, for which I have neither the skill or $ for.

[msmola2002]

Some guys from Sydney I think built their own khanacross buggies, using the engine and gearbox assembly from a 1300cc Suzuki. There were three of the things. They were plenty quick I Have some photos at home I think (I hope I took one of it) I’ll whack them up here over the weekend, you may be able to pinch some ideas.

[mondo2000]

Look, MIG is great, I love it, but it is not easy to do really well and very easy to do an ordinary job.

Ron Champion recommends MIG for first time constructors. He says it is the easiest method to achieve consistently good welds with.

Yes, his book is very amateurish, but he does have a lot of practical experience.

[Nero]

I'm a member of the Clubman Builders Club and I have spoken to a few engineers re such things. They are telling me that the bane of their existance ATM is the builder with a MIG, especially a small gasless mig.
I would argue that Gas welding is often better to get good results....but takes more time to learn.
Having done a few tests I can say from my own experience that you will get more distortion using MIG over bronze welding....but this is also partly due to tube dimensions etc.
For this (dare I call it a buggy?) it is possible that the tube dimensions will be large and wall thickness generous (I would recommend this given the intended use) and that MIG would be fine but would also suggest that you get a pro to set it up.

[Belly_up]

the other problem with mig, is that it's easy to make a weld that looks good, but isn't. Insufficient penetration of the weld due to incorrect settings etc. with other methods, (tig, oxy etc) at least if you do a shit weld, it will look shit, and you'll know it's no good.

[Datto-Zed]

Nero, Hamish: Thanks for all the info. Did a bit of reading about the nickel bronze welding and it seems to be a pretty good option. Having much lower equipment cost, being simpler to learn and giving a more consistent weld pretty much seals the deal. Having an oxy setup would also be great from the point of view of its versatility.

In my looking around a found a forum dedicated to welding. It will no doubt come in quite handy for me and may be of interest to some of you.

http://www.weldingweb.com/

msmola2002: Would be excellent if you could find those pics. I assume the 1300cc suzuki in question is the swift GTi enigne? It certainly would be a good option (as suggested by psi999).

The corolla idea is out. I'd be kidding myself if I thought I could be nice to the gearbox and driveline, especially a basher.

Jon's 2L turbo AWD ideas are getting to my head ....but really would cost too much, especially for my first go at such a thing. So maybe a cheap FR or MR setup would be the go for a first project.

Thanks again to everyone for your ideas.

[Datto-Zed]

Just had a look around for Racing & Sports Car Chassis Design by Costin. Boy do they want some money for it! I might have to wait a little longer before I shell out for that.