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New injectors for 800hp setup

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    New injectors for 800hp setup

    Was chatting to Jason Broadhurst about whether 1650's or ID2000's (a mate has a new set of ID2000's which will cost me less than a set of 1650's from golebys) will be suitable for my cars next iteration.

    I'd like to see what my Gen 2 6266 is capable of with more boost (will be a built 1j with all supporting hardware to max the turbo).

    Jase told me to post my current injector deadtimes and data for the new injectors and hopefully someone smarter than me can tell me if the ID2000's will idle on 98 sufficiently with regards to deadtimes and pulsewidth's at different pressures (car is flex tuned).

    (Base fuel pressure is 47.5psi with vaccum source disconnected)

    ID2000 data spreadsheet - http://help.injectordynamics.com/hel...nts/4057215987

    Not sure how to upload my haltech ecu file

    Click image for larger version

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    #2
    Every man and his dog is idling 13b turbos with more overlap and later intake close than you are likely to have on these injectors, it shouldn't be a problem. Turblown in the US run them on pump fuel and e85 tune cars. Gives you the biggest operating windows with a known consistent injector without crippling you fuel pump effective capacity by having to run stupid base pressures. With those injectors you could probably drop base pressure a bit too and still have more than enough flow capacity to choke that turbo on ethanol.

    I know Andy had preloaded injector data on the adaptronics, not sure if that is the case on the haltech as well.

    I'm guessing that turbo with a well set up intake and exhaust through a manual driveline should be an easy 650+ rwhp on DD if it'sa billet compressor?
    Last edited by Slides; 04-06-21, 02:51 PM.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Slides View Post
      Every man and his dog is idling 13b turbos with more overlap and later intake close than you are likely to have on these injectors, it shouldn't be a problem. Turblown in the US run them on pump fuel and e85 tune cars. Gives you the biggest operating windows with a known consistent injector without crippling you fuel pump effective capacity by having to run stupid base pressures. With those injectors you could probably drop base pressure a bit too and still have more than enough flow capacity to choke that turbo on ethanol.

      I know Andy had preloaded injector data on the adaptronics, not sure if that is the case on the haltech as well.

      I'm guessing that turbo with a well set up intake and exhaust through a manual driveline should be an easy 650+ rwhp on DD if it'sa billet compressor?
      Cheers mate.

      It makes around 520hp at the hubs on 28psi through an auto at the moment. It is the gen 2 version, billet comp wheel. Was hoping to wind it up to 35psi on the new motor with some 272 cams and see what it will do.

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        #4
        Yeah lean on it and see what you can get.

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          #5
          you're going to be in the non-linear zone of both those injectors on 98 so idle won't be perfect but closed loop lambda deals with it. problem is your commanded pulse width at idle is like 0.3ms + dead time. so if you're deadtime is wrong by 0.1ms thats 33% more or less fuel you're getting. you can either spend the time to get it perfect or just buy the IDs and punch in their data tables and forget about it.

          ID2000s are huge. 2200cc slope at 3 bar.
          the 1650s are really a ~1400cc injector at 3 bar.

          my duty cycle is ~78% at 500rwkw on e85 the the 1650s with an 8374 which is a similar sized turbo, but precisions go harder with the 66 arse end. so work out your actual power target and go from there. if you are trying to max a 6266 you'll run close to the limit on the 1650s unless you can up the base pressure a bit. I wouldn't want to push much over 90% on a high revving engine. you're going to need ~420lph at 80psi which is a pretty serious pump setup.
          Last edited by burn is weird; 07-06-21, 11:22 AM.

          Oo___oO

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            #6
            Originally posted by burn is weird View Post
            you're going to be in the non-linear zone of both those injectors on 98 so idle won't be perfect but closed loop lambda deals with it. problem is your commanded pulse width at idle is like 0.3ms + dead time. so if you're deadtime is wrong by 0.1ms thats 33% more or less fuel you're getting. you can either spend the time to get it perfect or just buy the IDs and punch in their data tables and forget about it.

            ID2000s are huge. 2200cc slope at 3 bar.
            the 1650s are really a ~1400cc injector at 3 bar.

            my duty cycle is ~78% at 500rwkw on e85 the the 1650s with an 8374 which is a similar sized turbo, but precisions go harder with the 66 arse end. so work out your actual power target and go from there. if you are trying to max a 6266 you'll run close to the limit on the 1650s unless you can up the base pressure a bit. I wouldn't want to push much over 90% on a high revving engine. you're going to need ~420lph at 80psi which is a pretty serious pump setup.
            Was hoping you'd chime in. Jase said you were one of the smartest blokes he knows so I appreciate the input.

            Another mate in the US has a set of brand new ID1700X which flow 1725cc at 3bar. I think im going to pull the trigger on them. They have a fuck ton of data to go with, flow more than the 1650 and are pretty much the same price with amtes rates.

            I saw Nuke performance make a 3L surge tank that fits 2 x DW400 (which i think are just bosch 540's) and based of the data available - one flows just under 350lph at 80psi. Am i correct in thinking if there is next to no pressure loss due to sufficiently sized fuel lines (and low base pressure) that two will flow 700lph at 80psi... or is that now it works when you have two pumps feeding into a single 10mm hose inside the surge before it opens up to 10AN line?

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              #7
              The ID1700s would be perfect for your power targets and have great plug and play data

              And those pumps will do the trick. that is a LOT of fuel. the DW400 has a check valve so you can stage them without extra bits. Main thing is decent wiring so you get full voltage to them. They will be pretty thirsty current wise at 80psi.

              A neat trick to get a bit more out of you pumps is use a diode fuse in your alternator sense wire to boost your system voltage. 1/2 a volt does make a difference. if you're sitting at ~13.5v or so

              All the 90 degree quick connect bends in the surge tank piping is odd but will be fine. I'd expect to lose 5-10psi by the time you reached the rail.

              1700s and two big pumps and you're laughing. just make sure you either use speed control or have a large enough reg return line to cope with it all.
              Last edited by burn is weird; 09-06-21, 03:37 PM.

              Oo___oO

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                #8
                Awesome.

                Perhaps the DW400 aren't Bosch 540's as the Bosch's don't have check valves. I was just going to run the two pumps flat out but might use a DW400 as the second pump so it can be staged to help keep fuel temp down for street driving?

                Plan was 10AN feed and 8AN return. Would rather not have to do anything again on this car and that should be more than enough fuel to far surpass my goals.

                Thanks for help mate.

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                  #9
                  A 6266 will make serious HP, I have one on a 2.2 SR20 and makes 515kw at the hubs at 33psi, I think it would do close to 600kw flat out.
                  3D scanning
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                    #10
                    I think 1j vvti heads just flow like shit in stock form. With stock cams it might have cracked 400kw on 30psi at the track when ambient temps were about 10c. On 28psi it made around 390kw at the hubs, albeit through an auto. I have seen boys in america push them to 40+psi (no idea if they're efficient at the level since there are no compressor maps available). Would the only way to see where it taps out at be to just keep throwing boost at it until it stops making power or are there a fuck ton more variables to take into account?

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                      #11
                      I just keep adding boost and watch when HP per psi drops off or I'm scared I'll push bottom end out the block.
                      3D scanning
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by venicebeach View Post
                        Jase said you were one of the smartest blokes he knows so I appreciate the input.
                        Limited to train spotty injector questions /i

                        Jason Broadhurst

                        Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

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